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BA @ Edinburgh shambles this evening.

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BA @ Edinburgh shambles this evening.

Old 10th Oct 2020, 21:08
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The96er View Post
Completly miss-understood the situation - you're implying that the issue was/is caused by people unwilling to work !? - The reality is aviation is looking down the gun barrel of the abyss and simply has no money to pay for the staff/equipment needed and not an unwillingness of staff to work. I've no doubt that what staff were on that night in EDI wore working under an impossible to achieve workload. The notion that it's the fault of the individuals on the Ramp is simply unfair on them.
Not a single word in my post is pointing a finger at the individuals on the ramp. My post is highlighting the issue in culture v business v cost. I am very experienced in risk mitigation and the balance between reasonable practicality versus cost. I am also very experienced in ramp operations and the time bound pressures that ground crews face, particularly when dealing with outbound v inbound aircraft.
Historically (and with financial penalties in mind), airports, airlines and handling agents have prioritised departures versus arrivals. My point was more towards the industry needing to take shift in risk mitigation. Unfortunately safety has now knocked both performance and cost saving out of the park. Keeping people waiting on aircraft in this pandemic will cost far more than a few additional ground agents in the long run. People just won't stand for it and will take their business elsewhere. Rail, drive etc.

I think the OP is very on topic and has a justified argument in the current climate.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 21:11
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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The last time I flew on a BA flight into EDI, and as a previous loyal customer clocking about 1.5 million miles on BA since the late 80's . . .

The flight landed on time, then proceeded to taxi to what I assume was somewhere on the east coast of England . . . we then waited nearly an hour for some steps to arrive, we then waited for a bus to arrive, and finally after another hour we waited for someone to open a door at the airport for 20 minutes so we could trudge through the rain to the carpark . . . of course I was charged more for parking . . . and I decided to simply not fly BA any more . . .

There was no Covid excuse at the time, or really any valid excuse, and I have no interest in what chump didn't do their job, I paid BA, and they did not deliver . . . and this was largely a repeat of a similar service a month before, and a litany of very late flights from LHR to EDI in the previous year . . . every single one late, sometimes hours, I was flying HEL <-> EDI weekly.

I remember the days when BA was the carrier of choice which I loyally booked and I flew all over the USA and europe with them for nearly 20 years . . . things have changed and they offer no value over the budget carriers . . . but still charge a premium price . . . If I'm going to get sh1t service I may as well pay less . . .

A real shame . . . but like everything this is what you get when you cost reduce things to the point where they don't work any more.

I realise I've spoken in a manner which suggests I still fly or even may fly again . . . neither of those are looking likely for the forseeable . . .
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 21:15
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by olster View Post
Ahead of schedule currently routing direct to the final approach crowed the captain of the inbound flight to Edinburgh this evening.
Every single flight has been routing direct to the final approach since March
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 21:39
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by olster View Post
This is an aviation forum and I am just relating my experience. I am too lazy to complain officially so I am venting here.
There is a key point here. There is an entire 4 page thread, to which the OP has commented several times on over the past 24 hours, which the topic has also raised many frustrations from either side of the argument.
The simple and quicker option would have been to actually complain to BA/Menzies/EDI and awaited a response with an explanation as to what happened, and maybe some kind of compensation/offering as way of an apology. I dealt with very similar complaints many times in my career. Many irate customers that when actually offered an explanation as to what happened or at least if it really was a complete mess up, a sincere apology.
THEN post the experience, and the outcome on open forums.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 23:53
  #65 (permalink)  

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Olster is quite right, and he should know. BA can be very shabby these days. Ground handling at EDI is a function of what BA are now prepared to pay. They were top notch.

I flew First and then Club World just this year, as a paying passenger LH ,and the cabin crew attitudes were astonishingly poor on all 4 long sectors, as was their service. A couple of years back, one of BA's Captains was poor enough to divert due fuel on our MAN-LHR sector, on a snowy day with insufficient resources to hold for 45 mins. Many missed their connection, due to a 4 hour delay on the ground at LTN. Hard to forget.

I am sorry that BA are now so poor in terms of customer service. However, things may change in the future.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 00:01
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TotalBeginner View Post
I’m neither cabin crew (thankfully) nor an employee of BA.
You are fortunate indeed ! my apologies, but PA,s don’t always reach the parts that personal contact can, I think you know that .
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 00:04
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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The OP needs to give their head a wobble and get a grip.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 00:49
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jenny Tails View Post
The OP needs to give their head a wobble and get a grip.
And you need to remember who pays your wages.....
Blaming the customer is never a good strategy.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 02:06
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Absolutely right Skippy. Poor customer service for unavoidable reasons is one thing; buck-passing, on the other hand, is both appalling and entirely avoidable. We should all be able to agree that BA has, for lots of reasons, been run down quite severely over the last five years. I have little truck with that more novel technique of customer-blaming - 'it's all they're willing to pay for' - given that the firm we're talking about makes somewhere around £1 billion p/a in a normal year. 2020 is, of course, an exception - but sadly these problems long predate the current crisis. It will take new management, which recognises the value to the shareholder of customer retention and finds the leitmotif of shambles upon shambles simply embarrassing, to solve them.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 03:36
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Is it unusual for steps to be available early i.e. well before scheduled arrival time? If it is unusual, is there any point in being early? If being early is simply a result of ATC and tailwind happenstance, is there any point boasting about it until after a timely set of steps has been confirmed? And if the whole industry is going down the tubes, wouldn't the flight crew be aware that it's going down the tubes and adjust their boastfulness accordingly?
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 10:18
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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I remember the days when BA was the carrier of choice which I loyally booked and I flew all over the USA and europe with them for nearly 20 years . . . things have changed and they offer no value over the budget carriers . . . but still charge a premium price . . . If I'm going to get sh1t service I may as well pay less . . .
This got me thinking.

According to skyscanner, booking ahead and flying from LHR to EDI with BA will cost £64 return.

If Luton is convenient for you, you can fly from there to EDI with Easy for £59 return. I didn’t look at LGW.

Catching a train from Kings Cross will cost £61 return on the same date.

Ryanair would probably offer a similar service for £9.99 each way.

Too few customers will pay for a robust level of service, and no airline executives will sacrifice their (cost cutting = profit making) bonus to provide it. Of course they will charge whatever they can, but the customer has decided that price is everything!

This is rather sad to say, but the halcyon days of aviation have gone for a very considerable time to come, if not forever.

On many routes everyone is competing with Ryanair levels of cost and service. Because that is what customers in their droves have shown they want.

Last edited by 4468; 11th Oct 2020 at 10:31.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 10:33
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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In my view, the powers that be demonstrated their contempt for British Airway's hard won reputation for good service and a very British corporate identity when they painted the tailfins with the ludicrous "Utopia" world image livery in the 90s.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 10:53
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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They probably have to disinfect the stairs between flights too
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 11:09
  #74 (permalink)  
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Personally I’ve not used BA since a FA threw a packet of peanuts at me on a domestic sector about a decade ago. From a customer service POV it is a “has been.”
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 12:15
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Let me get this into proportion.

Just how early was this flight, surely NOT 55 minutes, so why werent the steps available for the scheduled arrival time. Rotten ground handling.

That said, perhaps I should not criticise BA in case my Avios etc are removed by Sr Cruz !
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 13:38
  #76 (permalink)  
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I said I would not write anymore but I have just seen the post from Tom 777. Thank you for a very reasonable reply and I completely agree with you. Everybody is on edge right now and I do not blame flight / cabin crew, ground staff or hard working employees of any ilk. I do blame the upper echelons of BA management for the dysfunctional organisation that caused this problem. Not the end of the world but not acceptable either. Finally, I had a very enjoyable flying career and I am desperately sorry for all those who take pride in their aviation jobs currently under threat whatever the specification. Truly unbelievable that aviation has been thrown under the bus for this. That is another story I guess. Thanks again Tom 777.Cheers.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 13:56
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Now the clowns are bullying their pax from commenting.

From an ex employee...happy to be ex :-)
Ba
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...cism-jpp3xn3gs
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 14:24
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Unfortunately, civil aviation became commoditised and as a direct result cost cutting is the absolute goal of everyone involved on the business side. Olsters' complaint is hardly news. But if mass air transport at prices less than the car parking at the airport continues, nothing can change. The complainers grumble, then still go online for and baulk if a £30 fare to Malaga is unavailable. The accountants know this and they know that the headline price is all the punter is interested in. BA, for all its faults, tried in vain to resist the tide and now is what it is, [email protected]@ poor like its competitors. It is entirely feasible that BA may cease to exist, and the entrails of the industry will be handed over to the likes of Wizz, who get around the financial issues with questionable employment policies. Flying now, as a commodity, is the same experience ias being in a bus or a train, tolerable if all goes well, but only to do if you have to.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 15:31
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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A couple of years back, one of BA's Captains was poor enough to divert due fuel on our MAN-LHR sector, on a snowy day with insufficient resources to hold for 45 mins.
I'm sure you're right. He probably just set off with flight plan fuel without checking the weather at LHR. What a pity you didn't offer your superior knowledge up before departure.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 15:37
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Many axes being ground on this thread but this one takes the biscuit. You’re complaining because an aircraft diverted from Heathrow on a snowy day? What planet are you on? Have you ever operated into Heathrow on a snow day? “delay undetermined, one a/c has been holding for 55mins” was my favourite. Far better to take the delay on the ground somewhere less chaotic and relaunch when delays are known.

I remember when Heathrow changed the stand numbers years back, we took a little extra fuel just in case but we weren’t expecting carnage. Bet BA would get your blame for that too.


Originally Posted by RoyHudd View Post
Olster is quite right, and he should know. BA can be very shabby these days. Ground handling at EDI is a function of what BA are now prepared to pay. They were top notch.

I flew First and then Club World just this year, as a paying passenger LH ,and the cabin crew attitudes were astonishingly poor on all 4 long sectors, as was their service. A couple of years back, one of BA's Captains was poor enough to divert due fuel on our MAN-LHR sector, on a snowy day with insufficient resources to hold for 45 mins. Many missed their connection, due to a 4 hour delay on the ground at LTN. Hard to forget.

I am sorry that BA are now so poor in terms of customer service. However, things may change in the future.
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