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BA @ Edinburgh shambles this evening.

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BA @ Edinburgh shambles this evening.

Old 10th Oct 2020, 14:32
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 63
Posts: 168
Even our Tristars of 1973 ''vintage'' had their own airstairs and built-in on board bulk baggage conveyors -
The 1-11's had front & rear stairs, all had a nice punchy APU so all you needed was a low flat bed baggage truck for the bags and a few lads of 'bulk' muscle - although sometimes we had to load the bags ourselves with the FD & the CC helping out if it all went tits up down route and ''El we no-worko, Manana'' was in force.

To the OP I would complain especially, even if you (like me) are a lowly Blue BA Exec Club member - I would want/expect 10-15000 Avios deposited in my account for the inconveniences.
10 minutes to wait for steps is bad enough, but almost an hour's wait on an hours flight is wholly almost inexcusable, and unacceptable.

I had 2 instances of shocking ground handling on BA Club Europe flights going back to LHR both at Mykonos airport (Swissport) in the past 2 summers and I made constructive non-whining complaints to the No.1 CC who dealt with and recorded the matter superbly (hence that is why I fly BA) plus a follow up email to C-R and I got 10 and 15000 miles on each occasion.

How we boarded and loaded planes in the old days - Part 1








How we boarded and loaded planes in the old days - Part 2





BA had left their steps in the way so our DC-9 could not go forward on to the Jetty - we lowered the airstairs

If we had moved the BA steps they would have kicked off - If we had called BA Ramp on the phone and waited for their chaps to come out (from their dens 50 yards away) and move them we would have waited ummm for ages...
We would call BAA Ramp Ops and report the misdemeanor of BA leaving equipment on stand.
rog747 is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 14:49
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 366
If you want passengers to come back you have to provide a service that makes it worth the effort. The current litany of delays, cancellations, crap service, Hidden charges, delayed refunds, surly staff etc. wonít encourage this. Yes, we have noticed, and we tell our friends.

BA are self harming.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 15:36
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
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If you want passengers to come back you have to provide a service that makes it worth the effort. The current litany of delays, cancellations, crap service, Hidden charges, delayed refunds, surly staff etc. wonít encourage this. Yes, we have noticed, and we tell our friends.

BA are self harming.
The management of BA donít care. The ONLY thing they are interested in is short term cost cutting, and their associated reward. (bonus) They donít give a monkeyís whether you ever fly BA again. Truth is on a number of routes there is little competition.

Their nirvana is to eliminate BA completely, but amass a personal fortune in the process.

The reason some of the best staff in the industry can seem surly with customers is they see the destruction of BA on a daily basis, and have no more apologies left in their hearts!

That is unless you are talking about some of the cheapest staff in the industry. In which case you sometimes get exactly what you paid for!

Stop complaining (Itís useless!) and fly with any other airline whenever you can.
4468 is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 15:47
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: uk
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To the OP, apologies you had to wait to disembark. To add a little to explain the current situation. Currently planned block times and schedules are based on this season last year when life was somewhat different. The 30 minute taxi out from LHR is now probably nearer 5/10 due to the complete lack of traffic, all the short-haul aircraft are planned at flying cost index 0 (basically most efficient speed, which is slower than normal) but that will still end up with most short haul aircraft arriving early at the moment. Short of delaying departure on stand, there's not much more we can do. Flying back at min clean speed would quickly earn a shoeing from ATC! We could delay departure but then any unexpected incident - fox on runway, tug brake down, runway inspection etc etc (you know how it is!) would eat to us then being late which would probably irk passengers even more if we'd deliberately delayed the departure. So unfortunately we'll probably be early more often than not at the moment. Outsourcing is rubbish as it means that you are at the mercy of contractors but that's the way of the industry at the moment. To compete on price you have to go down that road and as much as I'd love it if we still had our own staff in all out stations (bloody good people who were cast adrift because the industry changed) but if we did then we'd probably have gone under already. The contractors are all suffering as well - most of their business has gone and they are operating skeleton staff with the rest redundant or on furlough and so the service levels may at times not be what we'd hope for or that you'd expect. But I do know that those I deal with on a daily basis are trying their utmost under difficult and changing circumstances - why wouldn't they? Their jobs are as much under threat as ours. Basically what I'm trying to say is - I'm sorry that the level of service didn't meet your expectations but don't think the staff you interact with don't care, we really do. I can't speak for the cabin crew member who snapped as I wasn't there but all our staff have had the redundancy threat over them for the last six months plus all the stress we have all had due to COVID etc, sometimes people snap under stress. I understand that the PA's can be annoying, especially now we have all the COVID ones as well but we get as many complaints about lack of information (even if it's a simple nothing has changed) as we do about too much, it's a tricky balance. I'm sure that when the Captain announced an early arrival he was trying to put a positive slant on what was probably a difficult journey for many of our passengers in these unusual times. Would have taken some special skills to predict no steps for 55 minutes (although in this job you do come to expect the unexpected). Yup, sometimes we are rubbish but I think it's rare that we're rubbish on purpose, we're genuinely trying to do the best we can in difficult circumstances and are very grateful to all those who do choose to fly with us at the moment.
Tom777 is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 16:20
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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An apology, although ineffective in terms of influencing the prompt arrival of the ground equipment, is always welcome . After all the cc are the pax facing representatives of the company, an apology and a truthful explanation can effectively calm things down.
Always welcome? What possible satisfaction would one get from getting the employee on the lowest pay grade to apologise for the incompetence of their overpaid management? Cabin crew will be the last in the chain to receive information and anything that is forthcoming will have filtered down from us in the flight deck anyway. A PA with facts and an apology is sufficient, people don't need individual pardons to cater for their travel woes *cringe!!

Valid questions are a different matter and of course they should always be treated courteously.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 16:27
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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At least you didn't have to pay for the water and the packet of crisps.
Mister Geezer is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 16:50
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: The wrong timezone
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Ahead of schedule currently routing direct to the final approach crowed the captain of the inbound flight to Edinburgh this evening. More verbiage about how early we were as we arrived on stand. 55 minutes later we were finally released and we listened to a litany of excuses. Apparently due to I kid you not, covid of course, there was only one set of steps @ Edinburgh and these were nowhere to be found. The lad behind me mildly enquired and complained to the senior cabin crew and was barked at in return Ďto not take his frustration out on the staffí. Very precious and unjustified. Having enjoyed a packet of crisps and a bottle of water as our in flight Ďrefreshmentí I can only say that the former national carrier is a national embarrassment. Yes I know times are tough but really.
Just out of interest, how much was your ticket?
anson harris is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 16:57
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
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Originally Posted by olster View Post
Ahead of schedule currently routing direct to the final approach crowed the captain of the inbound flight to Edinburgh this evening. More verbiage about how early we were as we arrived on stand. 55 minutes later we were finally released and we listened to a litany of excuses. Apparently due to I kid you not, covid of course, there was only one set of steps @ Edinburgh and these were nowhere to be found. The lad behind me mildly enquired and complained to the senior cabin crew and was barked at in return Ďto not take his frustration out on the staffí. Very precious and unjustified. Having enjoyed a packet of crisps and a bottle of water as our in flight Ďrefreshmentí I can only say that the former national carrier is a national embarrassment. Yes I know times are tough but really.
One set of steps, an hour after you arrive on stand? I believe at LGW we call that the Menzies Platinum Service...
Ralen is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 17:28
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: London
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Originally Posted by rog747 View Post
Even our Tristars of 1973 ''vintage'' had their own airstairs and built-in on board bulk baggage conveyors -
The 1-11's had front & rear stairs, all had a nice punchy APU so all you needed was a low flat bed baggage truck for the bags and a few lads of 'bulk' muscle - although sometimes we had to load the bags ourselves with the FD & the CC helping out if it all went tits up down route and ''El we no-worko, Manana'' was in force.

To the OP I would complain especially, even if you (like me) are a lowly Blue BA Exec Club member - I would want/expect 10-15000 Avios deposited in my account for the inconveniences.
10 minutes to wait for steps is bad enough, but almost an hour's wait on an hours flight is wholly almost inexcusable, and unacceptable.

I had 2 instances of shocking ground handling on BA Club Europe flights going back to LHR both at Mykonos airport (Swissport) in the past 2 summers and I made constructive non-whining complaints to the No.1 CC who dealt with and recorded the matter superbly (hence that is why I fly BA) plus a follow up email to C-R and I got 10 and 15000 miles on each occasion.

How we boarded and loaded planes in the old days - Part 1








How we boarded and loaded planes in the old days - Part 2





BA had left their steps in the way so our DC-9 could not go forward on to the Jetty - we lowered the airstairs

If we had moved the BA steps they would have kicked off - If we had called BA Ramp on the phone and waited for their chaps to come out (from their dens 50 yards away) and move them we would have waited ummm for ages...
We would call BAA Ramp Ops and report the misdemeanor of BA leaving equipment on stand.
those days of BA splashing the Avios for complaints are long gone. In the past youíd get 10,000 Avios for complaining about no choice of sandwich. Now you get a copy and paste reply to most complaints. You certainly wonít get anywhere near 10,000 Avios (unless perhaps youíre an important customer).
BA318 is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 18:11
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UAE
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Originally Posted by TotalBeginner View Post
Always welcome? What possible satisfaction would one get from getting the employee on the lowest pay grade to apologise for the incompetence of their overpaid management? Cabin crew will be the last in the chain to receive information and anything that is forthcoming will have filtered down from us in the flight deck anyway. A PA with facts and an apology is sufficient, people don't need individual pardons to cater for their travel woes *cringe!!

Valid questions are a different matter and of course they should always be treated courteously.
I respectfully suggest this is why you are in the wrong job ! ď Individual pardons ď what on earth does that mean ? individual explanations perhaps , thatís much better , doesnít take a lot of effort.
I know you are underpaid and not appreciated by BA , I mean that , but sadly you are the only persons on board that can answer questions face to face. Easier for all concerned to offer an apology ( on behalf of your hopeless employer)
and get on with life, at least thatís my humble opinion.
Jack D is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 19:04
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 39
Posts: 471
Wow, what a lot of fuss.

Ba flight early. 55 minutes for steps. Menzies are the handling agent and failed to provide the service for which they are contracted. Crew are criticised for making too many PAís and you did not like the tone of them either. Will BA be asking questions about why this happened? I would be pretty sure they will and I would be very confident it would be a one off. In 11 years I have not had this at EDI. Wheel chairs, well thatís different.

You also complain about the complimentary snack on a 55 minute flight. I get that itís frustrating but it seems that if God himself had granted all your wishes you would have complained about how long he took too.

You want to blame something? Covid. You want to blame someone? Start with Sturgeon then move onto Bojo and finish up with the whole reaction to this mess that is 2020. Open your eyes and realise things are pretty different right now.

If it had been me up front you would have received a very blunt and truthful PA. I donít hide my frustration either and I find passengers appreciate that. I am sure the crew wanted to resolve the situation and get home too.
bex88 is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 19:30
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Near sheep!
Posts: 914
There is a simple lesson in this post. Keeping people in a confined space for a minute longer than necessary during this pandemic, let alone 55, is not justified, regardless of the argument. Forget SLA'S, think risk mitigation.
Plenty of people out there desperate for work. Get them in and get them handling aircraft.

WindSheer is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 19:37
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 538
I respectfully suggest this is why you are in the wrong job !
Iím neither cabin crew (thankfully) nor an employee of BA.
TotalBeginner is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 19:41
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: U.K
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Originally Posted by WindSheer View Post
There is a simple lesson in this post. Keeping people in a confined space for a minute longer than necessary during this pandemic, let alone 55, is not justified, regardless of the argument. Forget SLA'S, think risk mitigation.
Plenty of people out there desperate for work. Get them in and get them handling aircraft.
Completly miss-understood the situation - you're implying that the issue was/is caused by people unwilling to work !? - The reality is aviation is looking down the gun barrel of the abyss and simply has no money to pay for the staff/equipment needed and not an unwillingness of staff to work. I've no doubt that what staff were on that night in EDI wore working under an impossible to achieve workload. The notion that it's the fault of the individuals on the Ramp is simply unfair on them.
The96er is online now  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 19:41
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 4,641
Sh*t happens you are lucky not to end up in court facing a interference with crew....
Kiltrash is online now  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 19:42
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Age: 60
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Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
Wow, what a lot of fuss.

Ba flight early. 55 minutes for steps. Menzies are the handling agent and failed to provide the service for which they are contracted. Crew are criticised for making too many PAís and you did not like the tone of them either. Will BA be asking questions about why this happened? I would be pretty sure they will and I would be very confident it would be a one off. In 11 years I have not had this at EDI. Wheel chairs, well thatís different.

You also complain about the complimentary snack on a 55 minute flight. I get that itís frustrating but it seems that if God himself had granted all your wishes you would have complained about how long he took too.

You want to blame something? Covid. You want to blame someone? Start with Sturgeon then move onto Bojo and finish up with the whole reaction to this mess that is 2020. Open your eyes and realise things are pretty different right now.

If it had been me up front you would have received a very blunt and truthful PA. I donít hide my frustration either and I find passengers appreciate that. I am sure the crew wanted to resolve the situation and get home too.
I rarely write on here, but I canít believe what I just read defending poor service on a customer-facing industry. Yes, stuff can happen, but you can handle it well, leaving the passenger annoyed but understanding. This didnít happen here.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 19:42
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Originally Posted by deja vu View Post
To think they once ran an empire on which the sun never set.

Who? British Airways, Edinburgh Airport, or, Menzies?

Give your head a wobble....
eastern wiseguy is online now  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 20:32
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Originally Posted by johnnychips View Post
I rarely write on here, but I can’t believe what I just read defending poor service on a customer-facing industry. Yes, stuff can happen, but you can handle it well, leaving the passenger annoyed but understanding. This didn’t happen here.
I am not defending poor service. Far from it. The service experienced was terrible once the aircraft arrived at EDI. What I am defending is BA in this situation. This is not normal, this is not directly BA’s fault but it is always our responsibility to look after our passengers. I have been in positions where I cannot do anything and it is BA’s fault. You will not hear a defence of them from me then. I have been known to say “this is entirely our fault” on the PA. What can the flight crew do? Blow a gasket over the radio too the handling agent who is not listening because half are redundant and the half of the remaining half are on furlough. Cabin crew can snap at people which is wrong but they are only human and mostly they snap when being snapped at. It does not make it right.

I find it really frustrating reading this stuff. It’s always BA’s fault. The staff are always rude and rubbish. The prices are always too high and the food not good enough. I do not see that on the vast majority of flights. Mostly we get it right but there is no defending it when we really get it wrong.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 20:55
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by JinjaNinja21 View Post
Your issue is wholly the responsibility of Edinburgh airport and Menzies, BA has absolutely no control over the ground staff there who deal with that, how many steps there are, or even where the steps are on the airfield. Something you should bear in mind before blaming any carrier.
100% wrong. Menzies ARE the face of BA, they handle BA wearing BA uniform and BA pay them to deliver a service. However since the EU changed the rules on ground handling, it has been a race to the bottom in terms and conditions. Whereas once BA and Midland had in house staff who were expected to deliver a high standard and were trained accordingly, nowadays the bar is way lower. Yes it absolutely is, flying UK domestic since the 90s the difference is palpable!
Cruz doesn't care as BA only need to compete at easyJet levels on these routes. How far things have changed hit home a few years back when BA parked the late Shuttle on cargo and bussed! Something unimaginable back in the glory days. Frankly EDI have more time for easyJet as they're a bigger customer anyway.

The current BA operation is really struggling, aircraft arrive at LHR and frequently wait for stand guidance and towing aircraft, 9/10 call up with the wrong details to ATC with the resigned response of "call company". I would bet a lot of the wrong people left or are leaving.....

The attitudes to customers on this thread are classic BA, just before Colin Marshall got rid of anyone who shared them!
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 21:05
  #60 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
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This is my final post on the matter. If you want to defend the indefensible then go ahead but you were not there. It is BAs fault or rather the organisation of ground equipment which they are responsible whether farmed out or not. To others I will say this: at no stage did I say anything to any crew member except thank you for the ludicrous plastic bag containing a packet of crisps and a bottle of water. Nor did I mention that I had been in the biz for a host of obvious reasons. The Scottish lad behind me was not offensive in any way to the cabin crew but got told not to take his frustrations out on them which he manifestly did not. He asked me what he had done to deserve that response. So as you like bluntness bex I will tell you that I do not give a flying foxtrot how you would have dealt with the scenario for the very reason I spent 40 years at the front end of Boeing’s and Airbuses and have been in exactly the same position. If you read my post you would know that in no way do I blame the crew but the captain was a slight hostage to fortune as our incredibly ( apparently) expeditious arrival ended up sitting like lemons for the oft mentioned 55 minutes. On reflection I may have been a little harsh on the skipper but his enthusiasm for the limelight was a bit much for my taste. Essentially although in my flying days I was aware that one needed to engage the passenger but my view was that to get there in one piece provided the best customer experience. In case of any further misunderstandings which are popping up here I have no doubt that BAs operational standards are as high as they always were along with the other major UK airlines. Shouting at handling agents? No, never a good idea and unfair with the pressures they are under. Now or pre covid. However and finally in summary, as has been mentioned this was a very poor customer experience whatever price I paid for the ticket and is the direct result of poor organisation; that is down to BA and the toxic management that run it. My view anyway.
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