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Is it time for a new UK airline? fresh capital no legacy liabilities

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Is it time for a new UK airline? fresh capital no legacy liabilities

Old 14th Aug 2020, 21:30
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Is it time for a new UK airline? fresh capital no legacy liabilities

Post COVID-19, Is there room for a third British Airline to serve inter-continental routes from BHX which is not connected with North America by direct flights and served only by Middle Eastern airlines via their hubs to SE Asia and Far East? BHX Airport authorities think so. Your esteemed opinions please..
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 08:41
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Well Birmingham Airport would - no doubt - also believe a direct flight to the moon would work from there. That's their job.

I share the sentiments of your subject title of the thread, but I don't for one second believe that Birmingham is the place to do it. The 'other guys' may have legacy liabilities but their power to transit passengers is going to be far greater. Just because - for example - the London market has a substantial number of seats to New York in normal times, but a good chunk of these passengers are connecting onwards to other parts of the US. That's what the main carriers bring.

I also think that demand for the US next year could be very weak. Florida is primarily a holiday destination for British tourists and the UK Government have demonstrated that they will - without hesitation - impose restrictions on countries with very little notice. Much easier to be stuck in spain with the kids than it is to be stuck in Florida. I'd also expect to see a situation whereby there is a change of administration in the US and this leading to a hardening of the approach in the US towards COVID and the borders going forward. I think there is scope for a new UK/Europe market entrant with a cleaner bill of health and not as a debt laden - yes - but strictly keeping it within Europe. Especially over the next few years where in my view, low cost flying is dead for a while now. The existing operators need to recalibrate and bolster themselves and this supported by pent up demand will intrinsically lead to higher fares across the board.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 11:00
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Given your apparent “enthusiasm “ shown on the Hans Airways thread I’m beginning to think you’re fishing for business with this new thread.

A new member making posts pushing a non existent operation??

In my humble opinion this is another no hope proposition from people without a clue about how to run a live operation that would cost investors dearly if they were naive enough to fall for the spin

If it walks like a duck and quacks ........

Last edited by mccdatabase; 15th Aug 2020 at 11:42.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 11:03
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Very quick reply NO !
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 11:08
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Originally Posted by mccdatabase View Post
Given your apparent “enthusiasm “ shown on the Hans Airlines thread I’m beginning to think you’re fishing for business with this new thread.

A new member making posts pushing a non existent operation??

Another no hope proposition that would cost investors dearly if they were naive enough to fall for the spin

If it walks like a duck and quacks ........
He could team up with Jason.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 11:18
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Originally Posted by BirdmanBerry View Post
He could team up with Jason.
Honestly when I saw his first post in the Hans Airways thread I thought he was likely involved. As I posted in that thread, it's not a HUGE commitment to submit an application to the CAA financially (in the grand scheme of things). So I don't agree that it adds any credibility. If it comes off, great! But I wouldn't hold hopes.

I'm assuming - given his posting - that the OP is the UBO of Hans, Satnam Singh Saini.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 12:47
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Originally Posted by Sam112 View Post
Post COVID-19, Is there room for a third British Airline to serve inter-continental routes from BHX which is not connected with North America by direct flights and served only by Middle Eastern airlines via their hubs to SE Asia and Far East? BHX Airport authorities think so. Your esteemed opinions please..
Who are the first two British airlines serving direct inter-continental flights from BHX and/or not connected with N. America?
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 13:11
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Is it time for a new UK airline? fresh capital no legacy liabilities
No, infrastructure, connectivity, bottomless Pit, BHX (or anywhere). No.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 15:11
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No, and not helped by so few people wanting to fly USA to BHX - particularly if no codeshare connectivity at the US airport, or BHX for that matter.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 16:37
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A new UK airline? Certainly could make sense with the right concept. But the problem in the UK is financing. UK investors don't have the appetite for risk that, for example, US investors have. The irony is that 'high tech' is the flavour of the month amongst UK investors, and something like 90% of high tech businesses never make any money. But they remain all the rage, while airlines are old fashioned. Bottomless pit? Southwest Airlines made money from day one. easyJet, Wizz, Porter and Jet Blue have done very well for their investors. It all comes down to a proper model and proper execution.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 00:56
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I was a regular flyer out of BHX and regularly flew from there with the likes of KLM, AF, Lufty, SAS & Swiss with the one time I flew long-haul to/from HKG utilsing Swiss, fantastic service, just a one hour connection each way in ZRH, I actually got 4 engines long-haul ZRH/HKG/ZRH, and I'd like to bet that I might have been just one of a handful of pax travelling BHX/HKG that day, hardly a long-haul aircraft load.

BHX is particularly great for all the feeder services via AMS, CDG, CPH, DUS, FRA, MUC, ZRH etc., there might be 80 pax on an aircraft, 4 of each to 20 different ultimate destinations, it simply isn't going to happen to, let's say, round-up some 250 pax to fill an A350 to just one Asian, African or down-under destination, unless that destination is particularly targeted at the population of the west midlands.

As it is, eastbound, one can fly to pretty much wherever one wants from BHX via one of the close-continental hubs, it worked fine for me as it clearly does for so many others also.

And I'm curious to learn who the first two British intercontinental airlines are that aren't connected to N. America when Virgin Atlantic is 49% American owned and BA is 45% (ish) Spanish owned!
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 10:52
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Find a really wealthy multi millionaire who will invest in it, he just won't be a millionaire for long.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 11:31
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Originally Posted by Sam112 View Post
Post COVID-19, Is there room for a third British Airline to serve inter-continental routes from BHX which is not connected with North America by direct flights and served only by Middle Eastern airlines via their hubs to SE Asia and Far East? BHX Airport authorities think so. Your esteemed opinions please..
Where have 'BHX Authorities' made any comment ?
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 11:32
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The last 15 years has seen how many new UK owned and based airlines launch? I'd argue we lost our appetite for airline ventures a long time ago. It is a very backward industry with massively inflated costs, hardly any innovation and regulation/red tape in all the wrong places.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 12:24
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Originally Posted by Superpilot View Post
The last 15 years has seen how many new UK owned and based airlines launch? I'd argue we lost our appetite for airline ventures a long time ago. It is a very backward industry with massively inflated costs, hardly any innovation and regulation/red tape in all the wrong places.
Not to mention a long list of failures for a multitude of reasons, including those that were very much household names.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 19:11
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This has got to be simply one of the most bonkers proposals I have heard in ages.

It is pretty obvious that US destined services from airports outside LHR are in pretty deep trouble now, Covid-19 has decimated routes, even from the likes of Manchester and with companies have realised that so much business can be done over Teams, Skype, or other electronic platforms the amount of high revenue business traffic is not likely to recover in the short to medium term, if at all.

As has been noted above, BHX has, and looks as though it still will retain excellent connectivity across numerous European and Middle Eastern hubs, and squeezed as it is between LHR and MAN stands just about zero chance of making a start up operation work, and any banker with an ounce of financial common sense wouldn't lend a cent to any such proposed operators.

The words "duck" and "dead" come to mind, but not necessarily in that order!
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 19:39
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In the longer term cross rail will offer a good service from Old Oak Common to Heathrow and HS2 from the Midlands to Old Oak Common, demand from BHX may just evaporate. A seasonal AA, UA or JetBlue service is all that can be hoped for.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 19:47
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There may be a niche at Birmingham for a small, well run operation picking up cheap leases, and with other low costs if they have good links into the local market to offer direct flights to the sub-continent, and going the other way to the likes of MCO and some of the caribbean leisure destinations. Maybe a low-cost alternative for the likes of TUI o using their own metal might be an opportunity in this disrupted market - easpecially if these are perceived as being 'safer' destinations going forward.

As others have said, something like a BHX "flag carrier" (sort of how TCX long haul was developing at MAN) seems like too big a risk

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Old 16th Aug 2020, 21:28
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The only opportunities in the airline business today if you can find them are the ones that help you get through this. The middle of a worsening global pandemic is not the time to be looking at new international travel opportunities.
As my Mother used to say " Would you like some cold apple pie".... " Well,come back tomorrow its hot now"
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Old 17th Aug 2020, 02:11
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Originally Posted by richardwpprn View Post
In the longer term cross rail will offer a good service from Old Oak Common to Heathrow and HS2 from the Midlands to Old Oak Common, demand from BHX may just evaporate. A seasonal AA, UA or JetBlue service is all that can be hoped for.
If, as I used to, I were travelling from BHX to Italy, Romania, Ukraine, Sweden, Latvia or Hong Kong and I needed to travel for an hour or so before connecting at an intermediary airport then bottom of my list of intermediary airport choices would be LHR!
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