Quarantine if you arrive from Spain from midnight 25/7/2020

[NWA SLF]

Something must be different in UK math. Currently the UK is reporting 299k confirmed cases, 46k deaths. Using the exact numbers it calculates to 15.28% mortality rate. Even the USA with the worlds worst response to COVID-19, enough for their people to be banned from travel nearly everywhere in the world is only 3.42%. However what is reported is those who test positive - they either live or they die. There is no statistic on health results post COVID-19 positive. Lung damage, permanent full disability, permanent partial disability, etc. Changing travel restrictions based on infection rates seems a reasonable response; prepare accordingly when you travel.

[Arcanum]

The U.K. government was barely able to test 10,000 people a day at the end of March. A lot more people had COVID in March/April than were showing up in the official numbers. It's only since early May that the circa 150K tests per day U.K. testing capacity is large enough to (probably) ensure that there's an accurate picture of infection rate.

People receiving positive antibody test results don't get counted in the numbers you're referring too. Also, the science indicates that people can fight off COVID using T-Cells and won't necessarily have a meaningful immune response which will be picked up by antibody tests.

[Playamar2]

Quote from the BBC. Talks are under way with Spain about introducing air bridges with the Balearic and Canary Islands, a UK government source has confirmed. An air bridge would mean people arriving from the islands would not have to quarantine for 14 days after rules changed this weekend. The travel industry is hoping ministers make a decision by Friday. A government source indicated to the BBC there will not be an immediate decision. One travel industry source said the government had told them it wanted to study more data from Spain's Islands before making a decision.

That last sentence is just ridiculous and groping for an excuse. Surely they made the decision to impose quarantine by studying the data in the first place. It would reflect badly on Bungling Johnson and his stooges if they changed the rule for the islands so quickly after imposing quarantine.

[inOban]

Originally Posted by bcn_boy

Turkey has been silencing it’s nurses and doctors, many have been arrested for speaking out about the dire situation in Turkey. Access to social media has been severely restricted and those found posting any negative comments about the virus or that of the governments handling have been arrested and their posts removed or had threats against their person and families. There are many documented cases by various NGO’s whose reports are available across the Internet. Istanbul has in excess of 40k extra deaths in the first three months of this year.

Fair enough. If accurate death registrations are available, the xs deaths are generally agreed to be the most accurate measurement. In the UK the current xs deaths are now negative, because some people would have died anyway of their other illnesses.

[Buster the Bear]

The UK is ranked 5th in the world for the total number of Covid-19 tests and shall pass the 15 million mark this week.

[LGW Vulture]

Just think of the environmental nightmare all of this PPE and testing kits are creating. All that good work saved on CO2 emissions from aircraft and we're creating an even bigger nuisance.

[LTNman]

Now against Government advice to travel to any Spanish Island

[guy_incognito]

The FCO's statement is interesting, in that it basically gives no logical reason for including the islands in the "no non-essential travel" advice. I'd imagine that it is very deliberate, and points to intra-departmental turmoil within government.

[LTNman]

Spain is getting more than twice the rate of new infections than the UK. Table below.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

[ROC10]

It has been said many times that Spanish holidays are soon to start, resulting in many Spanish people (some of whom will be from hotspots) flocking to islands and other popular destinations. Perhaps the government is acting proactively (I’m as surprised as anyone) to try to mitigate the potential consequences of this?

Of course I fear for the industry, but I don’t think it’s entirely fair to suggest this is completely nonsensical either.

[MKY661]

Wonder if they'll bring Gibraltar into this, since most people who fly from there do cross in from Spain including myself. Hopefully they won't have to self isolate in Gibraltar before returning home.

[250 kts]

You all just need to be aware that we Brits know so much more about how to handle this crisis, and we shall continue to lead the world in how we manage to screw it up. You thought I meant Covid? -well I did but the same applies to the B word too!

[PilotLZ]

The WHO today stated that travel bans cannot continue indefinitely and shall be reconsidered in favour of risk mitigation measures during travel. Is this just because someone will be upset if they don't get their annual week at the beach and will have to instead "act as a grown-up and stay close to home"? Absolutely no. Travel and holidays support an immense number of livelihoods. In many cases, entire countries rely on tourism because they hardly have any other industries. How do you tell all those people "sorry, folks, in the new normal we don't travel anymore, go find some other way of making ends meet"? What are they going to do? Grow potatoes where the hotels, restaurants etc once stood and revert to natural economy? And those people are in the sort of numbers which make any airline lay-off look rather insignificant.

[LTNman]

Was it not WHO that said it was safe to travel to and from China at the start of the spread of the virus when China had shut down domestic flights?

[A340600MAN]

Originally Posted by LTNman

Spain is getting more than twice the rate of new infections than the UK. Table below.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

I was looking at these figures yesterday. Spain and Portugal both have over double the infection rate 35.1 and 35.5 of the UK which currently is 14.7, which is similar in number to France 14.6. Sweden currently is 40.1. These figures are a 14-day cumulative number of COVID-19 cases per 100 000 people.

I work in the aviation industry, currently on furlough and is desperate to get back to work as soon as possible, but these EU/European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control figures point out that areas of Spain and Portugal are not safe at the moment. You can't have one rule/set of figures for Portugal and not apply the same rules for Spain. I'm fully aware the infection rate is lower in the islands but the trend is up and as we know there is always a lag in the infection rate.

[Mcflyer101]

Originally Posted by A340600MAN

I was looking at these figures yesterday. Spain and Portugal both have over double the infection rate 35.1 and 35.5 of the UK which currently is 14.7, which is similar in number to France 14.6. Sweden currently is 40.1. These figures are a 14-day cumulative number of COVID-19 cases per 100 000 people.

I work in the aviation industry, currently on furlough and is desperate to get back to work as soon as possible, but these EU/European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control figures point out that areas of Spain and Portugal are not safe at the moment. You can't have one rule/set of figures for Portugal and not apply the same rules for Spain. I'm fully aware the infection rate is lower in the islands but the trend is up and as we know there is always a lag in the infection rate.

These numbers are all meaningless if you don’t put them in perspective. Portugal has had far less deaths/people in intensive care per capita than Spain or GB. Madeira and Acores are basically Covid free. Counting infections that have completely different outcomes is meaningless. If we would have counted every single person with a flu in the past we probably would have created the same paranoia...But I guess the genie is out of the bottle and can’t be put back...

[valefan16]

Originally Posted by A340600MAN

I was looking at these figures yesterday. Spain and Portugal both have over double the infection rate 35.1 and 35.5 of the UK which currently is 14.7, which is similar in number to France 14.6. Sweden currently is 40.1. These figures are a 14-day cumulative number of COVID-19 cases per 100 000 people.

I work in the aviation industry, currently on furlough and is desperate to get back to work as soon as possible, but these EU/European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control figures point out that areas of Spain and Portugal are not safe at the moment. You can't have one rule/set of figures for Portugal and not apply the same rules for Spain. I'm fully aware the infection rate is lower in the islands but the trend is up and as we know there is always a lag in the infection rate.

The U.K. also tests far more than most countries which probably inflates our numbers in comparison to others which are not.

[davidjohnson6]

Originally Posted by A340600MAN

I was looking at these figures yesterday. Spain and Portugal both have over double the infection rate 35.1 and 35.5 of the UK which currently is 14.7, which is similar in number to France 14.6. Sweden currently is 40.1. These figures are a 14-day cumulative number of COVID-19 cases per 100 000 people.

I work in the aviation industry, currently on furlough and is desperate to get back to work as soon as possible, but these EU/European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control figures point out that areas of Spain and Portugal are not safe at the moment. You can't have one rule/set of figures for Portugal and not apply the same rules for Spain. I'm fully aware the infection rate is lower in the islands but the trend is up and as we know there is always a lag in the infection rate.

Croatia is looking like it's near the danger zone... their economy is heavily based on inbound summer tourism (about 20% of GDP, yes really high and higher than Spain or Portugal), so Govt will feel a significant conflict of interests in whatever they choose to do

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by DON T

What happens to aircrew that have returned on a flight from Spain?

They have an exemption from the 14 day quarantine requirement.

Pilots and crew, as defined in paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to the Air Navigation Order 2016(h), where such crew have travelled to the UK in the course of their work

You’ll need to complete the Public Health passenger locator form before you travel to the UK if you travel in any part of the aircraft that is accessible to any passenger for any part of the journey (for example the aircraft cabin).

You do not need to complete the Public Health passenger locator form if you travel in a part of the aircraft that is not accessible to passengers, for example a fully enclosed cockpit

You will not need to self-isolate for 14 days.

You should show a crew badge or ID.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...k-border-rules

​​​​​​​

[Copenhagen]

The UK government, Ireland too have quarantines on Spain and Portugal at the moment. Considering the UK government was slow to start the UK lockdown, and have taken a hands off approach in comparison to other nations, I trust that they know something we don't know and acted immediately with Spain and now Portugal.

Damned if the do, damned if they don't in many ways.