Quarantine if you arrive from Spain from midnight 25/7/2020

[Mcflyer101]

Originally Posted by Copenhagen

The UK government, Ireland too have quarantines on Spain and Portugal at the moment. Considering the UK government was slow to start the UK lockdown, and have taken a hands off approach in comparison to other nations, I trust that they know something we don't know and acted immediately with Spain and now Portugal.

Damned if the do, damned if they don't in many ways.

Turkey is considered to be ok by GB while Germany regards Turkey as danger zone. Everyone is making their own rules as they go along...The WHO just announced that travel restrictions are useless for countries that have similar levels of Covid. They make only sense in the beginning of a Pandemic when there are huge differences in levels of infection. Once it has become endemic it’s useless. You can get the Virus if you travel from Manchester to London and vice versa. During airport testing of people arriving in Germany those coming from countries considered safe tested positive in far bigger numbers...we’re talking about 75 people being positive out of 25000 people tested. However nobody is asking about the science behind it all. This science is sketchy and full of holes!...In the meantime I’m well impressed how easily people are led to believe everything their governments tell them.

[AirUK]

Why are we killing our travel industries instead of allowing folks to travel at their discretion and then testing people coming back from Spain to see if they need to individually self-isolate?

Bonkers.

[LTNman]

Originally Posted by Mcflyer101

These numbers are all meaningless if you don’t put them in perspective. Portugal has had far less deaths/people in intensive care per capita than Spain or GB...

So you are saying that Brits being infected in Spain or Portugal will have a better outcome when they return to the UK? The whole point of the restrictions is to try and reduce the number of new infections being imported.

[Bidule]

Originally Posted by Mcflyer101

These numbers are all meaningless if you don’t put them in perspective. Portugal has had far less deaths/people in intensive care per capita than Spain or GB. Madeira and Acores are basically Covid free. Counting infections that have completely different outcomes is meaningless. If we would have counted every single person with a flu in the past we probably would have created the same paranoia...But I guess the genie is out of the bottle and can’t be put back...

I agree that the number of cases is meaningless, simply because it directly depends on the number of tested persons, which is not given in this document https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea
However, I disagree with you on the death rate. From same document, the death rate - and this one does not depend on the number of tested persons - in UK (1.4 / 100,000) is very significantly higher than in Portugal (0.6) or Spain (0.1).

.

[wowzz]

Originally Posted by LTNman

So you are saying that Brits being infected in Spain or Portugal will have a better outcome when they return to the UK? The whole point of the restrictions is to try and reduce the number of new infections being imported.

But why stop people travelling to and from places that have lower infection rates (Balearic and Canary Islands) than the UK? The message is now so muddled that there appears to be no reasoning behind it. By the same logic, surely Scotland should be banning all travel to England, given the relative levels of CV19 between the two countries?

[Mcflyer101]

Originally Posted by LTNman

So you are saying that Brits being infected in Spain or Portugal will have a better outcome when they return to the UK? The whole point of the restrictions is to try and reduce the number of new infections being imported.

Again. When a virus is endemic it’s pointless to put up barriers between countries that have similar levels of infection. To kill off the virus you would need to quarantine everyone in their private homes for weeks if not months!...Is GB putting up barriers between Manchester and London for example? This is simple logic! The other option is to test people when they arrive. Austria has been doing it from the very beginning. Germany has introduced it for free.

[Kirks gusset]

Even Turkey is doing temperature checks on international arrivals. If PAX returning from Spain are to be quarantined then they must be checked at arrival and have a contact tracing app. Of course, none of this would have happened if the youngsters had obeyed the social distancing rules in the first place, France will be next.
In these countries where cafe culture and all hugs and kisses are the normal we may as well just accept the fact that no matter what the official advice, they will always do their own thing. A brutal regime like Turkey enforces the rule in the main tourist cities, hence the Eastern provinces being no-go areas, the Med countries must either do the same or face the economic hardship of their laissez faire approach. Sadly, once again, the UK aviation industry will be hit hard.
Police have already stated they do not have the resources to enforce quarantine and there is no real way of checking where people are without location technology.

[BDAttitude]

Finally it's not so much about science and logic - it's about politics and herding sheeple:
It is politically - with regard to your own holiday industry as was well as with regard to the "host" countries - impossible to prohibit Magaluf style holidays where holidaymakers infect holidaymakers, while allowing travelling for hiking vacations in Mallorcas back country, which would be very sensible.
So you have to find alternate ways of management.
In germany most imported Covid infections are not from your typical holiday destinations but apparently from family visits in south eastern balkan states. Again for political reasons the government has opted for the free tests - to avoid discriminatory allegations from certain immigrant communities when imposing a two weeks quarantine.

[Mcflyer101]

Originally Posted by Kirks gusset

Even Turkey is doing temperature checks on international arrivals. If PAX returning from Spain are to be quarantined then they must be checked at arrival and have a contact tracing app. Of course, none of this would have happened if the youngsters had obeyed the social distancing rules in the first place, France will be next.
In these countries where cafe culture and all hugs and kisses are the normal we may as well just accept the fact that no matter what the official advice, they will always do their own thing. A brutal regime like Turkey enforces the rule in the main tourist cities, hence the Eastern provinces being no-go areas, the Med countries must either do the same or face the economic hardship of their laissez faire approach. Sadly, once again, the UK aviation industry will be hit hard.
Police have already stated they do not have the resources to enforce quarantine and there is no real way of checking where people are without location technology.

Your prejudices are destroying your best arguments. Firstly Spain had one of the strictest lockdowns. Secondly neither Spain nor Portugal have been arguing about imposing face masks in confined spaces. To this day people in GB are very reluctant to use them. The “hugs and kisses” have long gone. Spikes are absolutely normal when you dealing with a highly infectious flu. Spikes are also happening in GB(Leicester etc.) On the other hand GB screwed up in the very beginning when it had no quarantine and open borders for months. To introduce a quarantine when others are starting to ease their restrictions and have far fewer cases proves that this government is clueless and most probably politicising the pandemic!

[PilotLZ]

Almost half a year into all the corona mess, some politicians keep deluding people that imported infections are the biggest problem out there and everyone shall concentrate on those by restricting travel and shaming travellers. In the meantime, failure to comply with a couple of simple rules inside most individual countries contribute a lot more to the increase in cases. You be the judge what is more risky: going to a not-too-popular and hence not overcrowded beach with your family in a foreign country or strolling the packed pubs with a crowd of drunken lads and social distancing thrown out of the window in your home city? It's not so much about where in the world you are; it's about how you spend your time there. You can stay really safe in Spain - just as you can engage into all sorts of risky behaviours in the UK. So, it would make a lot more sense to enforce order INSIDE the countries instead of restricting movement BETWEEN them.

[inOban]

But trying to operate a Track and Trace process is difficult enough within a country, without contact tracing people in several others.

[P330]

Originally Posted by PilotLZ

Almost half a year into all the corona mess, some politicians keep deluding people that imported infections are the biggest problem out there and everyone shall concentrate on those by restricting travel and shaming travellers. In the meantime, failure to comply with a couple of simple rules inside most individual countries contribute a lot more to the increase in cases. You be the judge what is more risky: going to a not-too-popular and hence not overcrowded beach with your family in a foreign country or strolling the packed pubs with a crowd of drunken lads and social distancing thrown out of the window in your home city? It's not so much about where in the world you are; it's about how you spend your time there. You can stay really safe in Spain - just as you can engage into all sorts of risky behaviours in the UK. So, it would make a lot more sense to enforce order INSIDE the countries instead of restricting movement BETWEEN them.

Absolutely spot on! Problem of enforcing though is difficult when the incidents aren’t always happening in public places: the volume of policing would be huge.

Sadly, a few aren’t playing by the rules and therefore that puts all of our lives on hold.

[davidjohnson6]

New stats out for all countries in the EU plus the UK showing the number of cases reported in the last 14 days per 100,000 population

UK has gone from 14.7 cases per 100k people in the last 2 weeks as of 27 July to 15.0 cases as of 28 July
Portugal as a comparable has gone from 35.5 cases per 100k people to 33.9
Spain has gone from 35.1 cases per 100k people to 47.2 cases

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

[guy_incognito]

Originally Posted by mike current

A lot of outraged voices saying "Serves them right for booking a holiday in the middle of a pandemic" or words to that effect.

Are they suggesting that the travel industry should stop completely for a year (or 2) and just magically reappear once people think it's ok to travel again?

I think it's much worse than that. A lot of people seem to think that the whole world economy should completely shut down, and a total lockdown enforced until the virus is gone and "the risk" is zero. Neither of which are going to happen.

[PilotLZ]

Originally Posted by guy_incognito

I think it's much worse than that. A lot of people seem to think that the whole world economy should completely shut down, and a total lockdown enforced until the virus is gone and "the risk" is zero. Neither of which are going to happen.

[Icelanta]

Originally Posted by bcn_boy

But is this the calculation that the Government is using? Doubtful. Turkey hides it’s official number similar to China yet this Government designates it as a safe destination knowing fully that this is a lie.

Spain is a EU nation with up-to-date reporting that wants to be as clear as possible.
Turkey is a country run by a despotic goat lover that has annexed part of an EU country .
There is simply NO comparison and no tourists should go to Erdoganistan at all.

[Kirks gusset]

Mac, you are absolutely correct, having read my post I can see that it appears to target the "locals' rather than the tourists. My point was meant to be that the relaxed approach to discipline makes it near impossible to enforce the rules on the tourists, unlike Turkey where the police get rewards for fining tourists. Spain desperately needs the revenues and hosts are reluctant to be party poopers. The Brits that went there and obeyed the rules are now suffering for the majority of knuckle heads that flirted them.
I guess the debate is about the UK Gov approach, lack of, etc and confusing messages.
Hong kong has gone back to lockdown now they have increases in cases tracked to maritime crews swapping duties at the ports and no Covid controls.
The Nightingale Hospitals were built mainly for the second and third waves, one could argue the writing was on the wall and the UK Gov knew it, on the other hand a broken economy is the balance of freedoms for many of us.

[wowzz]

Originally Posted by Kirks gusset

Mac, you are absolutely correct, having read my post I can see that it appears to target the "locals' rather than the tourists. My point was meant to be that the relaxed approach to discipline makes it near impossible to enforce the rules on the tourists, unlike Turkey where the police get rewards for fining tourists. Spain desperately needs the revenues and hosts are reluctant to be party poopers. The Brits that went there and obeyed the rules are now suffering for the majority of knuckle heads that flirted them.
I guess the debate is about the UK Gov approach, lack of, etc and confusing messages.
Hong kong has gone back to lockdown now they have increases in cases tracked to maritime crews swapping duties at the ports and no Covid controls.
The Nightingale Hospitals were built mainly for the second and third waves, one could argue the writing was on the wall and the UK Gov knew it, on the other hand a broken economy is the balance of freedoms for many of us.

If the Brits are responsible for the spike, perhaps you can explain why so many areas experiencing significant increases in infection rates, are nowhere near tourist areas.

[2Planks]

AirUK, no it's not bonkers as testing is not infallible by a long way.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53567309

[AirportPlanner1]

Originally Posted by guy_incognito

I think it's much worse than that. A lot of people seem to think that the whole world economy should completely shut down, and a total lockdown enforced until the virus is gone and "the risk" is zero. Neither of which are going to happen.

Thing is this could have happened, but that horse has long since bolted. Think about it, you had China and India shut down, there’s the two billion+ nations for starters. Most of Europe strictly shut down and sealed borders. Australasia ditto, and look at NZ now. Canada got tough. Most of Asia got tough. The USA was the real weak link, along with Brazil (same politics), Turkey (politics referenced) and then the likes of ourselves here in the UK who did it half-heartedly...again see the politics of it.

What we could have had was fully functioning domestic economies a la New Zealand, and bit by bit sealed international networks between 0 case countries.