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Coronavirus Impact on Air Travel

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Coronavirus Impact on Air Travel

Old 12th Oct 2020, 10:52
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Some countries require that people arriving from (or to) a region where yellow fever is endemic must show proof of having had a yellow fever vaccine as a condition of entry to the country. No proof = no entry or immigration official does vaccine on the spot

Assuming a Covid vaccine is created, I wonder if a proof of vaccine might effectively become a requirement to travel internationally. The documentary proof will of course presumably be something difficult to forge...

Thoughts ?

Last edited by davidjohnson6; 12th Oct 2020 at 11:58.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 12:03
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
Some countries require that people arriving from (or to) a region where yellow fever is endemic must show proof of having had a yellow fever vaccine as a condition of entry to the country. No proof = no entry or immigration official does vaccine on the spot

Assuming a Covid vaccine is created, I wonder if a proof of vaccine might effectively become a requirement to travel internationally. The documentary proof will of course presumably be something difficult to forge...

Thoughts ?
Good plan, but won't happen.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 13:34
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
Some countries require that people arriving from (or to) a region where yellow fever is endemic must show proof of having had a yellow fever vaccine as a condition of entry to the country. No proof = no entry or immigration official does vaccine on the spot

Assuming a Covid vaccine is created, I wonder if a proof of vaccine might effectively become a requirement to travel internationally. The documentary proof will of course presumably be something difficult to forge...

Thoughts ?
It's a possibility. Consider a microchip implanted which can be updated with your personal health data. Without the data which could be scanned at airports, no travel. The WHO would be inclined to develop such a scheme.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 13:55
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Originally Posted by racedo
Travel Industry is dead, 2022 it might recover but the continued scaremongering may make that a struggle.
How many airports and airlines will still be around in 2022?
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 15:10
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The crazy self isolation policy makes little sense. If you live in Bournemouth I'd say it would be much more important to self isolate if you have visited Liverpool rather than Mykonos. Places that have the virus best under control- Jersey, Malaysia, Vietnam, Hong Kong, Singapore etc all have airport testing on arrival, with results in most cases within 12 hours. All require some form of isolation even in negative and/or re testing after 5 days. Travel policy here remains confused in all forms of transport, after 7 months policy is still being made on the hoof.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 15:26
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LHR not in Europe`s Top Ten busiest.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 16:40
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Again, even amongst contributors on here, all emphasis seems to focus first and foremost on measures to reassure the most neurotic of coronaphobes. They will be the last to resume traveling whatever the industry does. A hardcore of those who have succumbed to the daily doses of media-driven coronapanic will never fly again. Period. The industry must stop shaping its policies around appeasing these most squeamish outliers and instead consider what those comprising the reasonable mass market are asking of them. Including cutting red-tape and ditching practically useless virtue-signalling "safety measures". Often yours for a substantial additional fee. So you want to see airliners restricted to 30% loads by government mandate? Well, if you can afford the fares which will arise from that, you go off and hire yourself a private CitationJet. Let the rest of us exercise our common sense. Recent scientific evidence indicates that airliner cabins are not leading vectors for spreading C-19 infection.

There just seems to be a noisy minority who demand that everybody else's lifestyle choices be restricted / banned / priced out of reach so that should they ever muster the courage to move their a*** out of their armchair they can feel "safe". Those people are not reasonable. They will never feel "safe". They aren't the ones who will return to flying. And that's fine. Each to their own. But that has to include not restricting the sensible silent majority with increasingly absurd and expensive "safety measures".

Coronaphobia will not stop me from traveling, though as with everybody else, draconian restrictions will (and continue to do so). I'm not complacent about C-19; I certainly don't want to catch it. But nor do I wish to be run over by a bus - though I'm not planning to avoid bus stations to improve my chances. Nor do I wish to be struck down by lightning - but I'm not going to lock myself away indoors forever to dodge that possibility either. Life comes with risk. Each individual must recognise their own tolerance level and manage their lives around the level of risk which works for them and their personal circumstances.

I see lots of well-intentioned "safety measures" intended to "reassure" me, but too often they leave me either appalled or scratching my head in bemusement. Today I read that UK rail operators will be leaving train windows open through the winter to discourage the spread of C-19. Well, gee thanks, rail bosses! I'm sure the NHS will be super-delighted by the flood of additional cold and pneumonia cases your new policy will harvest for them. But they're fine, cos they're not covid. Airport operators proudly circulate photos of swathes of taped-off seating to "reassure" me. Slight problem: I have an arthritic knee and WILL BE SURE TO AVOID airports which I know to have taped off their seating. Are these airports run by complete halfwits? What morons are promulgating these completely mad ideas to "reassure" frequent travellers like me? Do they believe that C-19 is suddenly the only medical issue which travellers have to consider in the course of their everyday lives? What about those whose conditions mean they need to use the lavatory more often (closed due to covid)? What about passengers who need to use an ATM in arrivals ... deactivated, because of course you will catch covid from typing in your pin number? Getting stuck overnight with no local currency in an airport comes with no medical implications at all, right? You want to buy food? How mad! Don't you know that you could catch covid in a shop or a restaurant ... but of course if you're diabetic and we induce a serious medical crisis by derailing your dietary routine, that is just tough luck. Covid "reassurance" uber alles! You're free to die of anything else. Or merely suffer (trivial if not covid-induced).

Finally - but not least - the resort experience. Spanish and Italian politicians - amongst others - are keen to "reassure" me that it is "safe" to holiday there. By - amongst other things - insisting that every moment spent outside your private space must come with wearing a muzzle on pain of large fines. In a hot climate! Well I don't know about you, but I go on holiday to enjoy myself (tough concept for coronaphobes and "experts" to grasp, I know). Perma-bemuzzlement in tropical heat and enjoyable vacations simply cannot co-exist. I'll obediently wear a muzzle for the greater good in a crowded public space, but not out and about hiking on a deserted hillside? As long as these masters of "reassurance" are mandating "reassuring" measures of this sort, they can shove their "luxury vacations" right where the sun don't shine. Not one cent of mine will go towards a "holiday" like that. Or one where I'm forbidden to meet anybody new ... cos they have to stand too far away from me at all times. I presume that everyone who has ever kissed someone they met for the first time on holiday has already died of covid? Of course, this isn't a problem for me. Way too ugly. No chance of a kiss (unless arrest follows shortly afterwards). But I do spare a thought for those who might like to meet someone special whilst away?

I call upon airline and travel industry execs to wake up to what the mass-market / frequent travellers really want. And lobby the 650 Westminster Mental Patients (MP's) accordingly. Stop pandering to extreme coronaphobes who will still be hiding away a decade from now whatever you do. They are not your customers. They are not the flying public.

As one of your regular customers (on the rare occasions my flights aren't cancelled), my needs are simple. I want my travel insurance policy to be valid. I don't want to be quarantined (barring upon receipt of a positive C-19 test). I want to be able to sit down in an airport departure lounge. I want to be able to buy food and use an ATM. I want to be able to remove my muzzle in wide-open spaces with few people around. I don't want even more red-tape and form-filling queues designed to offer the illusion of "enhanced safety".

I know. I guess I'm just unreasonable! Forget everything I said and just shut down the world again.

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Old 12th Oct 2020, 17:58
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Blimey one of the Tory Ultras has just swung by again...

The only benefit being the diatribe is so long most will zone out half way through even the first paragraph.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 19:44
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OK. Assuming you mean me, what is "ultra" about speaking up for people who have arthritis and need seating, who need to use the loo more than most, or who don't want to catch pneumonia from open train windows in the depths of Winter? What is "ultra" about wanting valid travel insurance, or no requirement to quarantine when representing negligible risk? Or even to use an ATM or buy a snack? Yes, the only explanation for rooting for these unreasonable things is a leaning towards hard right politics, right? Well you just keep telling yourself that.

Perhaps you'd prefer an "ultra" restrictive lockdown police state? Oh ... hang on ... BOBBY!!!
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 20:16
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Originally Posted by southside bobby
Blimey one of the Tory Ultras has just swung by again...

The only benefit being the diatribe is so long most will zone out half way through even the first paragraph.
Play ball not man.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 20:20
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Originally Posted by OzzyOzBorn
Again, even amongst contributors on here, all emphasis seems to focus first and foremost on measures to reassure the most neurotic of coronaphobes.

As one of your regular customers (on the rare occasions my flights aren't cancelled), my needs are simple. I want my travel insurance policy to be valid. I don't want to be quarantined (barring upon receipt of a positive C-19 test). I want to be able to sit down in an airport departure lounge. I want to be able to buy food and use an ATM. I want to be able to remove my muzzle in wide-open spaces with few people around. I don't want even more red-tape and form-filling queues designed to offer the illusion of "enhanced safety".

I know. I guess I'm just unreasonable! Forget everything I said and just shut down the world again.
Some of what you said I diagree with but a lot I agree with.

Life is being shut down when no guarantee measures will work .
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 20:39
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Some of what you said I diagree with but a lot I agree with.
And that is fine. Grounds for debate as it should be. But as an industry, this is a conversation which we urgently need to have. We can't just keep bowing down to the demands of the most shrill promoters of coronapanic for ever more. This industry is dying before our eyes. And the sacrifice serves virtue-signalling political gesture over hard science.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 13:53
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Ozzy is right. Does he work for Wizzair, I wonder?

They have provided the services customers want, expanded their schedule, allowed people to travel on full aircraft, and hopefully benefited hugely from their approach. Those airlines with a more timid approach (TUI, Easy) are likely to lose market share, and possibly put their own survival at risk.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 15:10
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Meanwhile, the spread of the virus is getting even more out of control in many countries. Most affected age group 18-29, probably those who are still travelling the most!
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 15:38
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Most affected age group 18-29, probably those who are still travelling the most!
Most infected group numerically, not most affected by the symptoms. 99%+ of them recover easily, and many of them are asymptomatic throughout the episode. One could argue that this demographic is contributing most towards the desirable goal of herd immunity.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 15:43
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Pistonprop
I have travelled for work all through this, but I am now blocked due to coming from West Yorkshire and can not return to Germany where I work. I would suggest the surge in the virus is due to a younger generation going back to uni / school, and also English pub / nightclub culture, not people getting on aeroplanes. I have not been in a UK pub since Feb, and as for UK nightclubs that ship sailed years ago, though I have been to various bars / restaurants in Munich.
Cheers
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 17:03
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Originally Posted by OzzyOzBorn
Most infected group numerically, not most affected by the symptoms. 99%+ of them recover easily, and many of them are asymptomatic throughout the episode. One could argue that this demographic is contributing most towards the desirable goal of herd immunity.
I have just listened to 'Inside Science' on BBC R4 presented by Adam Rutherford who had CV19 and is now suffering from 'Long Covid'. He is only 45. The complications and longer term effects are pretty worrying. Give it a listen on BBC Sounds or another podcast source.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 17:37
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While we are being advised to work from home if we can and not to use public transport, as the virus spreads through close contact, the view from some here is that social distancing should be ignored when passing through airports, sitting on aircraft and then standing on airside buses with your nose pressed against the next passenger. Fair enough when social distancing isnít practical when flying. The trouble is many potential passengers freak out at that idea.

The government hasnít banned air travel. If I want to travel to Spain I still can. If I want a beer in a Liverpool pub I cannot do it.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 17:56
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
I have just listened to 'Inside Science' on BBC R4 presented by Adam Rutherford who had CV19 and is now suffering from 'Long Covid'. He is only 45. The complications and longer term effects are pretty worrying. Give it a listen on BBC Sounds or another podcast source.
Post viral issues. Whatever way they want to dress it up, it isn't unique to Covid, just nobody ever cared before because nobody fixated so much on a single medical issue.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 17:56
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
I have just listened to 'Inside Science' on BBC R4 presented by Adam Rutherford who had CV19 and is now suffering from 'Long Covid'. He is only 45. The complications and longer term effects are pretty worrying. Give it a listen on BBC Sounds or another podcast source.
Many influenza like viruses like can have long term complications. It is uncommon but not unheard of. Professor Francois Ballaux of UCL is worth seeking out. It seems for geneticists the sars Cov2 is a rather unremarkable virus.

unherd.com/thepost/covid-epidemiologist-climate-of-fear-on-covid-is-dangerous/

The BBC standpoint needs to be treated with caution.
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