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Coronavirus Impact on Air Travel

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Coronavirus Impact on Air Travel

Old 2nd Jun 2020, 08:22
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
Absolute nonsense, this is a clear example of policy being formulated on the hoof, with no thought being given to how it might be enforced, or of it's consequences. Government would appear to be looking for ways to back itself out of this corner with a policy that might go a bit like the old joke "when is a quarantine not a quarantine?....when it's brought in by the British government!"
The rules around quarantine look very similar to those previously used for self-isolation etc - i.e. go home and stay there apart from in these exceptional circumstances, with the addition of the possibility of checking. Whether you agree with it or not, it is a standard approach.
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Old 2nd Jun 2020, 08:49
  #1082 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
The rules around quarantine look very similar to those previously used for self-isolation etc - i.e. go home and stay there apart from in these exceptional circumstances, with the addition of the possibility of checking. Whether you agree with it or not, it is a standard approach.
It's a "standard UK approach". Were it to be done properly, every arrival in UK would have, and should have been since mid March housed in accommodation provided by the government, and serviced by them so there would be no requirement to leave the confines of the accommodation. That could have been achieved by HMG requisitioning hotels and using the hotel staff to provide the service. That way the quarantine could be meaningful, otherwise it's exactly, as you say, the same as lockdown, essentially comply unless you want / need to break it - more holes than the proverbial Swiss cheese, and surely something that any government official could find their way around, supposing, just for example they felt they needed an eye test!

If the whole thing had been done properly, by now we'd be looking at people in the travel and tourism sectors going back to work in the next week or so, rather than hoards likely headed for the dole queue and bankruptcy courts as seems far more likely.
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Old 2nd Jun 2020, 09:43
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
It's a "standard UK approach". Were it to be done properly, every arrival in UK would have, and should have been since mid March housed in accommodation provided by the government, and serviced by them so there would be no requirement to leave the confines of the accommodation. That could have been achieved by HMG requisitioning hotels and using the hotel staff to provide the service. That way the quarantine could be meaningful, otherwise it's exactly, as you say, the same as lockdown, essentially comply unless you want / need to break it - more holes than the proverbial Swiss cheese, and surely something that any government official could find their way around, supposing, just for example they felt they needed an eye test!

If the whole thing had been done properly, by now we'd be looking at people in the travel and tourism sectors going back to work in the next week or so, rather than hoards likely headed for the dole queue and bankruptcy courts as seems far more likely.
Spot on. The Government has lost the plot. Think back to the early days of Covid-19 and of the folk arriving in the UK who were coached-off to an enforced quarantine. Contradictory "advice" now abounds. This newly proposed "quarantine" is a farce. The Police don't have the powers to enforce it and in some areas are more of a "farce" than a "force". Examples of how to mean what you say can be found elsewhere. See how Madeira has enforced a genuine "quarantine" - as well as Guernsey where folk arriving are checked regularly at their given address to see if they are fulfilling the requirements. Breaches there will result in fines of £10,000. In the UK it resembles a parking ticket. The fine is £100 but reduced to £50 if paid promptly. Which jurisdictions are likely to be respected?
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Old 2nd Jun 2020, 10:46
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Originally Posted by Gurnard
See how Madeira has enforced a genuine "quarantine" - as well as Guernsey where folk arriving are checked regularly at their given address to see if they are fulfilling the requirements. Breaches there will result in fines of £10,000. In the UK it resembles a parking ticket. The fine is £100 but reduced to £50 if paid promptly. Which jurisdictions are likely to be respected?
Are you really suggesting that what was ahieved on the small islands of Guernsey and Madeira with their small populations can be replicated on the island of Great Britian ??
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Old 2nd Jun 2020, 10:57
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It is so much easier to 'Police' the quarantine in a small island, here in Tenerife on initial lockdown streets were patrolled by Police and Civil Guard with fines of 600€ imposed for breaking the rules. Hence the current figures of 1 new case on Sunday and no deaths for a number of days. No lenient parking fines here.
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Old 2nd Jun 2020, 11:00
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Originally Posted by The96er
Are you really suggesting that what was ahieved on the small islands of Guernsey and Madeira with their small populations can be replicated on the island of Great Britian ??
Why not? Thailand. Similar land mass, similar population to UK achieved it
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Old 2nd Jun 2020, 11:02
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Sigh - you can use public transport to get to you place of residence if there isn't any other way of doing it - similar for getting food. Doubt there will be many pubs, cinemas open?
The intention is to allow pubs, restaurants and cinemas to open in Stage 3 from early July.

As for the Number 10 source who said it would be okay to go out to get food and travel on public transport if strictly necessary. Was it the same Number 10 source who said it was okay to drive a 60 mile round trip to test ones eyesight? A Number 10 source isn't the law. Any half decent lawyer would drive a coach and horses through any attempt to enforce this legislation.😂

Last edited by DomyDom; 2nd Jun 2020 at 11:36.
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Old 2nd Jun 2020, 11:21
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
The rules around quarantine look very similar to those previously used for self-isolation etc - i.e. go home and stay there apart from in these exceptional circumstances, with the addition of the possibility of checking. Whether you agree with it or not, it is a standard approach.
But it isn't a standard approach to quarantine as that would entail testing arrivals and isolating them in government allocated hotels as Greece is doing. It also isn't enforceable as ones trip to buy a sandwhich or a tin of cat food and then taking a perfectly legal diversion to a friends BBQ or the pub on the way back illustrates. Which also doesn't look like self-isolation either. If you also look at how many categories of worker (and who is going to verify them) are exempt it probably includes about 30% of the population in which case what's the point?
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...k-border-rules

This law requires only voluntary compliance and is an unenforceable farce in my opinion.
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Old 2nd Jun 2020, 11:27
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Originally Posted by The96er
Are you really suggesting that what was ahieved on the small islands of Guernsey and Madeira with their small populations can be replicated on the island of Great Britian ??
No I am not. The earlier part of my previous post would have made that clear had it been quoted. The UK simply does not have the resources - hence the verbal bluster.
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Old 2nd Jun 2020, 11:34
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Originally Posted by Gurnard
No I am not. The earlier part of my previous post would have made that clear had it been quoted. The UK simply does not have the resources - hence the verbal bluster.
The UK could make a better fist of checking quarantine in homes if the fines were such that they were a real deterrent if an offender was found out, and if there weren't so many exemptions. If the police were short handed why not use the armed forces (unarmed of course) to get more boots on the ground. If people actually thought they'd be caught the numbers arriving, and returning from holiday having decided to wing it might be much reduced anyway, which might make policing less onerous.

And on another point, do all the business execs and playboys and girls arriving in their bizjets also have to comply with quarantine under the government's rules. Somehow I can't see Sir Philip Green or Sir Alan Sugar surrendering quietly to quarantine.
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Old 2nd Jun 2020, 11:43
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To get back to the aviation theme of this....

Is aviation really one of the major causes of transmitting this global pandemic or a victim ? Many countries knew about the pandemic so early on but did nothing about it ! Way back then, borders still open, no quarantine and just told to go home and self isolate (who actually did that ?) Due to the slow and slack approach in the UK, one of the biggest economies... Aviation is paying a severe price. Maybe with too many experts giving contradictory advice the Government did not know exactly what to do ?

Now it seems after wanting a 14 day quarantine period for anyone returning to the UK the Government are backing down and that won't happen, if this is not happening are they just going to let anyone in to the UK, will there be any kind of checks, seems not. We hopefully will not go back to square one with what the Government are fearing a second Peak !

Although I agree Aviation needs to restart, I think it should be one of the last to be relaxed, get your country in order first before risking further imports of the Virus, there has to be strict controls at borders. Or is it the same old story, for example Greece and Spain now changing their minds on quarantine and UK visitors now being allowed, risking travellers, their countries and people for financial gain.
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Old 2nd Jun 2020, 11:47
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
The UK could make a better fist of checking quarantine in homes if the fines were such that they were a real deterrent if an offender was found out, and if there weren't so many exemptions. If the police were short handed why not use the armed forces (unarmed of course) to get more boots on the ground. If people actually thought they'd be caught the numbers arriving, and returning from holiday having decided to wing it might be much reduced anyway, which might make policing less onerous.

And on another point, do all the business execs and playboys and girls arriving in their bizjets also have to comply with quarantine under the government's rules. Somehow I can't see Sir Philip Green or Sir Alan Sugar surrendering quietly to quarantine.
That doesn't get around the fact that the legislation is unenforceable. If I was so inclined and some squaddy turned up at my house demending to know where I had been I would just say "Awfully sorry Private, I've been to Tesco to buy Tiddles his Felix. Sorry it took such a long time. Goodby."
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Old 2nd Jun 2020, 17:11
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Originally Posted by DomyDom
That doesn't get around the fact that the legislation is unenforceable. If I was so inclined and some squaddy turned up at my house demending to know where I had been I would just say "Awfully sorry Private, I've been to Tesco to buy Tiddles his Felix. Sorry it took such a long time. Goodby."
Just do what other countries have done very effectively. Ban anyone from leaving their home for any reason. If they cannot comply then don’t travel abroad.
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Old 3rd Jun 2020, 13:24
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Originally Posted by LTNman
Just do what other countries have done very effectively. Ban anyone from leaving their home for any reason. If they cannot comply then don’t travel abroad.
I think a targeted approach based on assessed risk would be better. Quarantine arrivals from countries with significant amounts of CV in allocated hotels for 14 days or until they are tested and cleared.
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Old 3rd Jun 2020, 13:34
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Originally Posted by LTNman
Just do what other countries have done very effectively. Ban anyone from leaving their home for any reason. If they cannot comply then don’t travel abroad.
"Ban anyone from leaving their home for any reason". I'm just amazed that anyone can think like this.
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Old 3rd Jun 2020, 13:38
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Apart from for government ministers and junior ministers you really are hard pressed to find many Tory MPs who agree with this proposed "sledgehammer approach" to quarantine. Leader of the 1922 Committee, Graham Brady, was just on "The World at One" taking it apart, and Chris Patton is similarly dismissive of it. The airline, travel and tourism industries are obviously agin and making collective voice heard; question is will Priti Useless listen. Moreover, are there enough Tory MPs with the spheroids to put their heads above the parapet at make their feelings know.in parliament?

I suspect the answer to both questions is no. The government failed to listen to industry ahead of the Brexit referendum, and actually fails to listen full stop, and why it should be any different this time I really don't know. The best I think that can be hoped for is a fairly swift back pedaling once the first stint of 3 weeks of quarantine is up.
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Old 3rd Jun 2020, 14:03
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With a review date of week beginning 28th June that provides time for the quarantine arrangements to be lifted and FCO advice to change before the main holiday season starts in July. Lets hope numbers in Europe continue to keep coming down everywhere.
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Old 3rd Jun 2020, 14:29
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Originally Posted by DomyDom
With a review date of week beginning 28th June that provides time for the quarantine arrangements to be lifted and FCO advice to change before the main holiday season starts in July. Lets hope numbers in Europe continue to keep coming down everywhere.
(Especially the UK!!)
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Old 3rd Jun 2020, 15:58
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Originally Posted by ZFT
"Ban anyone from leaving their home for any reason". I'm just amazed that anyone can think like this.
it called a curfew Israel implemented several during their lockdown over major holidays
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Old 3rd Jun 2020, 15:59
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Originally Posted by DomyDom
With a review date of week beginning 28th June that provides time for the quarantine arrangements to be lifted and FCO advice to change before the main holiday season starts in July. Lets hope numbers in Europe continue to keep coming down everywhere.
I read one article online where their “sources” said airlines were told the quarantine would be lifted by July for them and would be able to run holidays... that said it depends how good their “sources” are.

You would have assumed with most airlines now set on July 1 that they’d be given some notice that their holidays can proceed rather than let airlines and holidays know either way 2 days before that date!

See also the Greeks keep changing their plans for us...

last week - No Brits until things improve

Saturday - Brits can come but must quarantine for 7 days if negative or 14 if positive

Today according to Martin Lewis and the Telegraph it’s now - Brits can come! We will test you when you land, put you in a hotel overnight (at no cost) as you wait for the results then if negative have a good holiday!

They've softened their stance twice in a week!

Portugal seems keen for us to go there too, along with Italy both who will not quarantine at all.
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