Coronavirus Impact on Air Travel
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As for Spain, i would be very cautious about booking winter hols since scientists are warning that the 2nd wave of Covid-19 will be far more dangerous and long lasting in Oct/Nov given the fact that it will coincide with the seasonal flu..And we all know it's too soon to be hoping for an effective vaccine, aside from the possible mutations that it won't cover..What we can hope for, though, is effective medication..
Summer season is practically cut in half this year and that goes for countries who've handled the covid situation far better than Italy, Spain or France and have had not many cases and few deaths in comparison..That would be Malta, Cyprus, Croatia, Greece, Bulgaria,Israel and eastern european countries plus Austria..I can't imagine people rushing to book for vacation in Italy or Spain very soon..But all countries will primarily rely on domestic tourism, since there's no co-ordinated lift of restrictions and dates will differ for the start of flights from/to each country..Surprisingly (or not) nordic countries and the Baltics have also handled this very well, with the possible exception of Sweden, depending on personal view and perspective (although nowhere near Spain,Italy,France,UK,Germany etc)..
"I think we are all going to have so accept that air travel is all but ended for most of us for a very long time."
No we just accept that some old people are going to die sooner than they expected and quite a few my be very uncomfortable for a couple of weeks - the death rates from CV-19 are dropping and are effectively zero for anyone under 40
No we just accept that some old people are going to die sooner than they expected and quite a few my be very uncomfortable for a couple of weeks - the death rates from CV-19 are dropping and are effectively zero for anyone under 40
So the Government Chief medical officer has said "I think we are all going to have to accept that air travel is all but ended for most of us for a very long time"
Now he is also an expert on Aviation too ! Without getting too political there are far too many government ministers and so called experts telling us different stories. Example traffic light system to try and get us out of Lockdown then Boris states that wont happen, lockdown will go on for as long as it takes. They are scared of a second peak - well what about all the countries around the world and those closer to home in Europe who are easing Lockdown ? Are they scared of a second peak seems not. Just UK being overcautious as usual. Then there is the PPE scandal putting NHS workers/Key workers lives at risk. Testing.... figures keep getting put out there and not met. Constant rumours of a vaccine, when one becomes available I think it will be the only way out of this. And no, as Asturias56 says "we just accept that older people are going to die sooner" We should not accept that - why are nurses and doctors putting thier lives at risk trying to save them !!!! because life matters whatever your age, gender or race.
Far too many, so called experts seem to have crystal balls and are predicting the future. Hopefully a vaccine will come along before the death of Air Transport
Now he is also an expert on Aviation too ! Without getting too political there are far too many government ministers and so called experts telling us different stories. Example traffic light system to try and get us out of Lockdown then Boris states that wont happen, lockdown will go on for as long as it takes. They are scared of a second peak - well what about all the countries around the world and those closer to home in Europe who are easing Lockdown ? Are they scared of a second peak seems not. Just UK being overcautious as usual. Then there is the PPE scandal putting NHS workers/Key workers lives at risk. Testing.... figures keep getting put out there and not met. Constant rumours of a vaccine, when one becomes available I think it will be the only way out of this. And no, as Asturias56 says "we just accept that older people are going to die sooner" We should not accept that - why are nurses and doctors putting thier lives at risk trying to save them !!!! because life matters whatever your age, gender or race.
Far too many, so called experts seem to have crystal balls and are predicting the future. Hopefully a vaccine will come along before the death of Air Transport
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The other countries are testing the waters by releasing a few aspects of the lockdown, and have made it clear that if the case rate rises, full lockdown will be reimposed.
We have already seen that a country like Singapore which thought that it had suppressed the disease has now had major outbreak among the lowpaid immigrants who live in crowded dormitories.
We have already seen that a country like Singapore which thought that it had suppressed the disease has now had major outbreak among the lowpaid immigrants who live in crowded dormitories.
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Helipixman
For clarity, the Chief Medical Officers quote was in SpanishEyes post #650.
"This disease is not going to be eradicated, it is not going to disappear," he said, at the government's daily coronavirus briefing.
"So we have to accept that we are working with a disease that we are going to be with globally... for the foreseeable future."
It was SpanishEyes who made the subsequent comment on air travel. It seems when you quote a post which had a previous quote in it, that disappears hence causing the confusion.
I wouldn't disagree that there are a lot of so called experts around at the moment along with all us keyboard warriors. "Nature abhors a vacuum" and reality is nobody has a clue how all this will pan out just yet.
For clarity, the Chief Medical Officers quote was in SpanishEyes post #650.
"This disease is not going to be eradicated, it is not going to disappear," he said, at the government's daily coronavirus briefing.
"So we have to accept that we are working with a disease that we are going to be with globally... for the foreseeable future."
It was SpanishEyes who made the subsequent comment on air travel. It seems when you quote a post which had a previous quote in it, that disappears hence causing the confusion.
I wouldn't disagree that there are a lot of so called experts around at the moment along with all us keyboard warriors. "Nature abhors a vacuum" and reality is nobody has a clue how all this will pan out just yet.
Commit Aviation
Apologies for the confusion about the Cheif medical officer, I still stand by what I said about too many experts and the current Government being split as to what to do for the better. I hate to mention it but its the same Government/MPs who could not sort out Brexit for years. In the past I have worked in the aviation industry in varied roles and just hope it survives this terrible virus. As you say nobody knows how this will pan out and for how long, its all about preserving life which is the most important thing. Some businesses will not survive which is sad but life is more important.
As for other countries testing the waters thats great, is the UK going to do the same or just keep us in lockdown, soon many aspect of life in Europe could be getting back to some sort of eased lockdown, why is the UK so different ?
Apologies for the confusion about the Cheif medical officer, I still stand by what I said about too many experts and the current Government being split as to what to do for the better. I hate to mention it but its the same Government/MPs who could not sort out Brexit for years. In the past I have worked in the aviation industry in varied roles and just hope it survives this terrible virus. As you say nobody knows how this will pan out and for how long, its all about preserving life which is the most important thing. Some businesses will not survive which is sad but life is more important.
As for other countries testing the waters thats great, is the UK going to do the same or just keep us in lockdown, soon many aspect of life in Europe could be getting back to some sort of eased lockdown, why is the UK so different ?
I have a feeling they only way out of total lockdown is a vaccine ! but one day we hear a vaccine has already been tested, then another source say its a year away.
Stay in , stay safe, save lives.
Helipixman
Lockdown cannot continue indefinitely because COVID-19 is the immediate but not the only health consideration out there. An A&E Doctor at Addenbrookes noted in a TV interview that admissions for heart attacks and strokes had halved from normal levels. Have people stopped suffering from these critical conditions, or is it that they'd rather take their chances at home than risk catching C-19 in hospital? Cancer diagnoses are well down. Has there been a miracle cure? Or could it be that diagnostic consultations are compromised by the lockdown? And then we have the cumulative health impacts of cancelled elective surgeries - those operations are needed for a reason. And within lockdown itself, mental health challenges surging. Depression, stress, suicidal tendencies, loneliness, domestic violence, self-harm, alcoholism, substance abuse, overeating, inactivity. There are two sides to this equation, and there comes a tipping point where the lost life-years from "everything else" outweighs the toll from C-19 (which predominantly claims victims from those in end-of-life care or with low life-expectancy remaining due to other health issues). Yes, every life is precious. But that includes those being compromised by the lockdown itself. And don't forget that death rates rise in periods of economic recession ... and I suspect what we should really call this period is an economic DEpression.
So eventually, political leaders will have to make a judgement call. And their decision won't be universally popular. Because it will mean increasing the risk to life towards one group in order to ease risk to life for others. I suspect the way they will have to go will be to continue lockdown for the elderly and those with critical health impairments whilst lifting restrictions for everyone else. And many in those vulnerable groups will remain in voluntary lockdown mode whatever the government says they're allowed to do.
And as for the airline industry, what are the prospects there? Well, I count myself amongst the keenest of air travellers and I'm in no rush to take reckless chances. How will more nervous travellers react?
FWIW, my own concerns aren't about catching C-19 aboard an airliner. And measures such as leaving middle seats empty are cosmetic only (Michael O' Leary is absolutely correct on this).
But these are the concerns which make me wary of booking more flights until things become much clearer:
- When I pass through airport formalities with luggage and join the stuffy security queue I inevitably perspire - those perspiration-detector bodyscanners get me every time! Does that mean I'd show an elevated temperature if spot-checked? Would I be refused boarding? Inconvenient outward, devastating on a homeward flight.
- Would I risk being ordered into 14 days of quarantine at destination whether healthy or not? With nobody around to help me?
- Will visitor attractions, restaurants, bars, museums, swimming pools, beaches etc. be closed at my destination of choice? Will there be public transport or taxis available?
- If restaurants are open, will I be asked to leave if spicy food makes my nose run as usual? (Apologies for that lovely image).
- Will I be barred from entering countries unless I can show an immunisation certificate?
- Will a foreign visitor from a perceived 'high-risk' country be made to feel welcome by the host population?
- Will there be any local sightseeing excursions running? Will there be any sporting events, festivals, exhibitions, concerts, theatre productions, conferences to attend? Theme parks? Water parks?
- Will my foreign travel be covered by insurance?
For these reasons, my own inclination is to stick with travel within the British Isles until things become clearer. I had thought the mainstream Spanish resorts might be an early option, but they're now talking of shutdown through to year-end. I'm not afraid of the plane ... love that bit! But my choice of destination is likely to be limited to DUB, BFS, NQY, INV, JER, IOM or similar until I can discount the risk of becoming stranded abroad. And if I - who had 49 flights booked going into this Summer - feel like this, how quickly will those who just 'tolerate' flying return?
And as for cruise-lines ... I note that the main UK brands have scrapped sailings for most of the Summer now. Not good at all.
So eventually, political leaders will have to make a judgement call. And their decision won't be universally popular. Because it will mean increasing the risk to life towards one group in order to ease risk to life for others. I suspect the way they will have to go will be to continue lockdown for the elderly and those with critical health impairments whilst lifting restrictions for everyone else. And many in those vulnerable groups will remain in voluntary lockdown mode whatever the government says they're allowed to do.
And as for the airline industry, what are the prospects there? Well, I count myself amongst the keenest of air travellers and I'm in no rush to take reckless chances. How will more nervous travellers react?
FWIW, my own concerns aren't about catching C-19 aboard an airliner. And measures such as leaving middle seats empty are cosmetic only (Michael O' Leary is absolutely correct on this).
But these are the concerns which make me wary of booking more flights until things become much clearer:
- When I pass through airport formalities with luggage and join the stuffy security queue I inevitably perspire - those perspiration-detector bodyscanners get me every time! Does that mean I'd show an elevated temperature if spot-checked? Would I be refused boarding? Inconvenient outward, devastating on a homeward flight.
- Would I risk being ordered into 14 days of quarantine at destination whether healthy or not? With nobody around to help me?
- Will visitor attractions, restaurants, bars, museums, swimming pools, beaches etc. be closed at my destination of choice? Will there be public transport or taxis available?
- If restaurants are open, will I be asked to leave if spicy food makes my nose run as usual? (Apologies for that lovely image).
- Will I be barred from entering countries unless I can show an immunisation certificate?
- Will a foreign visitor from a perceived 'high-risk' country be made to feel welcome by the host population?
- Will there be any local sightseeing excursions running? Will there be any sporting events, festivals, exhibitions, concerts, theatre productions, conferences to attend? Theme parks? Water parks?
- Will my foreign travel be covered by insurance?
For these reasons, my own inclination is to stick with travel within the British Isles until things become clearer. I had thought the mainstream Spanish resorts might be an early option, but they're now talking of shutdown through to year-end. I'm not afraid of the plane ... love that bit! But my choice of destination is likely to be limited to DUB, BFS, NQY, INV, JER, IOM or similar until I can discount the risk of becoming stranded abroad. And if I - who had 49 flights booked going into this Summer - feel like this, how quickly will those who just 'tolerate' flying return?
And as for cruise-lines ... I note that the main UK brands have scrapped sailings for most of the Summer now. Not good at all.
OzzyOzBorn
That is one of the best replies I have seen one here so far, so many great points, agree best to stay in the UK for now. I have a holiday booked to Greece in late June, hoping it will be cancelled, it has not yet ! I do not really feel safe going abroad and maybe would not be allowed anyway as you say with no Immunisation card ? or insurance ? Do not really want to be pressured into going by a tour company if it is only mildy safe to go. Whats the point of going if little will be open and yes the possibilty of getting stranded.
You mention perspiration at airports, last year after being up for 24 hours with an overnight flight landing at Manchester, we decided at the last minute instead of waiting for a train we would book a Flybe flight to Edinburgh. We had to rush through security and were both sweating, one of us got stopped and vigorously searched for whatever they thought was wrong ? God forbid that happened now. Cough in public or sweat in public it's like you have two heads.
Like you I also love flying, have over 100 different types flown in and cannot wait to add some more.
Keep safe
Helipixman
That is one of the best replies I have seen one here so far, so many great points, agree best to stay in the UK for now. I have a holiday booked to Greece in late June, hoping it will be cancelled, it has not yet ! I do not really feel safe going abroad and maybe would not be allowed anyway as you say with no Immunisation card ? or insurance ? Do not really want to be pressured into going by a tour company if it is only mildy safe to go. Whats the point of going if little will be open and yes the possibilty of getting stranded.
You mention perspiration at airports, last year after being up for 24 hours with an overnight flight landing at Manchester, we decided at the last minute instead of waiting for a train we would book a Flybe flight to Edinburgh. We had to rush through security and were both sweating, one of us got stopped and vigorously searched for whatever they thought was wrong ? God forbid that happened now. Cough in public or sweat in public it's like you have two heads.
Like you I also love flying, have over 100 different types flown in and cannot wait to add some more.
Keep safe
Helipixman
Join Date: Jul 2002
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As pointed out no insurance cover for the virus will be a concern to many. Not only could a family member get infected before they left so they needed to cancel the holiday, it could come out abroad with the person hospitalised or worse with a big bill to pay. Even minor symptoms would prevent their return trip with additional accommodation needed and another flight.
Thread Starter
Try high altitude sickness more than pneumonia, which is why certain senior docs are saying ditch the ventilators and put on pure pxygen.
Thread Starter
LBC has just had a programme on this and there is widespread if anecdotal evidence that people are returning to the roads. Most of the callers I heard were from London and the South-East where I would expect to see a less cautious approach*, so it may not be a nationwide phenomenon.
*tin hat on and ready for incoming
*tin hat on and ready for incoming
Re the insurance issue: I could envisage a situation under which enterprising insurance companies might offer to cover you for C-19 as an optional add-on for (say) £20 extra for a typical fortnight away in Europe. Many would be happy to pay that right now, and insurance companies rarely overlook a good business opportunity.
Helipixman: thanks for your comments. I think I'm familiar with your photostream on flickr, unless someone else from Scotland uses exactly the same username. Nice work.
Helipixman: thanks for your comments. I think I'm familiar with your photostream on flickr, unless someone else from Scotland uses exactly the same username. Nice work.
Thread Starter
LBC has just had a programme on this and there is widespread if anecdotal evidence that people are returning to the roads. Most of the callers I heard were from London and the South-East where I would expect to see a less cautious approach*, so it may not be a nationwide phenomenon.
*tin hat on and ready for incoming
*tin hat on and ready for incoming
Paxing All Over The World
OzzyOzBorn
Nope - they are just dying at home. Paramedics are finding that they have many more 'dead on arrival' than before. It may be that these folks do not want to bother A&E or the fear that they will catch the disease at hospital. So they stay home and, a notable number, then die.
The other category of folks in trouble are those for whom new treatment would be started, particularly for a cancer.
I have read this and my nephew is Ambulance crew.
A&E Doctor at Addenbrookes noted in a TV interview that admissions for heart attacks and strokes had halved from normal levels. Have people stopped suffering from these critical conditions, or is it that they'd rather take their chances at home than risk catching C-19 in hospital?
The other category of folks in trouble are those for whom new treatment would be started, particularly for a cancer.
I have read this and my nephew is Ambulance crew.
Currently i'm a designated key worker who working well away from home, it is most definitely not just London and South East. Even got stuck in a small traffic jam where didn't get through lights at first time when went green.
