737 Max - Europe S20

[Cymmon]

This is almost unprecedented, the time to return to service. I can only remember the comet being grounded longer but that was basically a full rebuild of the aircraft.. Complete Windows redesign from square to round, not "just" a software tweak. The Max problem really must be significant if it's going to take this long. I'm wondering if airlines will switch to other suppliers, but that would depend on them having capacity to make quick deliveries. Maybe Airbus could ramp up in US and China, or the Chinese could step in to fill the gap?

[N707ZS]

Passenger confidence due to media coverage of the accidents and the long term grounding is going to be interesting.

[Superpilot]

As sad as it is to say, it is statistically speaking, quite likely another MAX will accident/incident will take place in the 1-2 years after it is back on line. There is a back log of 400 aircraft to clear. Once the fix has been approved and applied to each aircraft, airlines will be under pressure to get them delivered and on line ASAP . Things will be rushed and shortcuts will be taken ultimately resulting in other more well known factors to take over and contribute to an accident/incident.

One more accident or incident will be enough to put the final nail into the coffin even if it has nothing to do with MCAS. It will cause another media stir with negative publicity for Boeing and airlines alike. The name has been dirtied. Airlines need to start demanding Boeing rebrand the MAX now and go as far as possible to make it appear to the public it is a different aircraft. Right now that is not a priority but it ought to be as it's the next battle they will need to fight.

[BRUpax]

Airlines need to start demanding Boeing rebrand the MAX now and go as far as possible to make it appear to the public it is a different aircraft.

That won't work. The press will know and the public will be informed that the new rebranded Boeing 737 Fiasco is in fact the old MAX

[LTNman]

To placate passengers concerns rub out Boeing from the side of the aircraft and insert Airbus

[EISNN]

Originally Posted by Superpilot

Things will be rushed and shortcuts will be taken ultimately resulting in other more well known factors to take over and contribute to an accident/incident.

Airlines need to start demanding Boeing rebrand the MAX now and go as far as possible to make it appear to the public it is a different aircraft.

Firstly I don’t think Boeing, the FAA, EASA or any other aviation authority nor the airlines will rush anything and no shortcuts will be taken. There is too much at stake. Lives, reputation, careers, investment and money to mention just a few key points.

As for a rebranding? “A turd by any other name is still a turd”, comes to mind. Also the media,airline crews and the general public are not fools. I wouldn’t insult them by suggesting that they wouldn’t know it’s still the same aircraft.

[brian_dromey]

Originally Posted by davidjohnson6

Fir those unaware, Boeing announced production of the 737 Max will be suspended in January. Large production lines take time to restart after suspension, so this is clearly not going to be just a few days.

Has the decision now been made for airlines operating within Europe for S20 as to what to do ? Should one now expect the likes of TUI and others to be trying to get hold of every 150-200 seat aircraft they can find ?

I don’t think so. Production and schedules are largely independent. It’s worth considering that airlines have a lot more access to Manufacturer timelines than the public does. Most summer schedules have been written assuming the MAX is unavailable. As you say, a return to service for the start of the summer schedule seems unlikely. The peak July/August is not impossible though, subject to crewing for those airlines with delivered MAX’s.

[EIFFS]

Interesting situation that the regulators and Boeing find themselves in, on the one hand MCAS is needed because without it you could in extreme circumstance be unable to recover the aircraft from an UAS and yet if MCAS malfunctions with the current software it might put you in an UAS

Choice seem limited to "trusting the new software to be sensor failure redundant" or a massive redesign which would probably result in it being a new type rather variant or scrap it and build a new aircraft from scratch ..............

I'd go with the software personally and more detailed sim training.

There is no way to switch off MCAS without disabling the STAB and trying to manually trim the stab in a high speed high work load situation is far from easy

[Wycombe]

Wondering how many Max Customers would have found the NG suitable for their needs (had Boeing not stopped building them)?

Surely better to be operating something that's a bit less capable than having to not operate or not expand at all?

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Wycombe

Wondering how many Max Customers would have found the NG suitable for their needs (had Boeing not stopped building them)?

Surely better to be operating something that's a bit less capable than having to not operate or not expand at all?

Just what Jet2 did (ordered a large NG fleet well after the Max launch). Have to say they seem perfectly satisfactory to me.

I, too, think it will be S21 before the Max is meaningfully back. There are going to be mods to install as well as software, and a lot of training which, as almost no simulators exist for it, will need to be on modified aircraft.

[bad bear]

Can the planes be modified to use previous engines without the need for software or are they completely different from earlier 737s?