Teesside International Airport-1
Good points P330...all have been raised previously.
The money spent would have had much more impact on Teesside as a whole if it had been used to subside services,both social and locally economic.
As it is the Teesside taxpayer is subsiding folk..probably a lot from outside the region to have a weeks summer holiday in Bulgaria or Spain!
The Airport was doing ok with core Amsterdam and Aberdeen routes for the business community.
These new business ? flights may over years work..but again massive input of local money..When other alternatives are available close by?
Aviation is falling out of favour with environmental campaigners and can only get worse?
The money spent would have had much more impact on Teesside as a whole if it had been used to subside services,both social and locally economic.
As it is the Teesside taxpayer is subsiding folk..probably a lot from outside the region to have a weeks summer holiday in Bulgaria or Spain!
The Airport was doing ok with core Amsterdam and Aberdeen routes for the business community.
These new business ? flights may over years work..but again massive input of local money..When other alternatives are available close by?
Aviation is falling out of favour with environmental campaigners and can only get worse?
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I agree to an extent.
However, initial subsidies, can be like a loss leader in commercial businesses...something that kick starts something that ultimately leads to commercial viability. I suspect this is the case here. Will the routes become self-sustaining and/or will this attract new players so the combination of all routes become self sustaining. So, the big picture idea is probably the right one but initially, in these difficult times, it’s a tricky pill to swallow.
By the way, I haven’t seen anything that suggests the holiday flights are subsidised?
On taxpayers money, this is central funds devolved as opposed to being entirely funded by local council tax.
However, initial subsidies, can be like a loss leader in commercial businesses...something that kick starts something that ultimately leads to commercial viability. I suspect this is the case here. Will the routes become self-sustaining and/or will this attract new players so the combination of all routes become self sustaining. So, the big picture idea is probably the right one but initially, in these difficult times, it’s a tricky pill to swallow.
By the way, I haven’t seen anything that suggests the holiday flights are subsidised?
On taxpayers money, this is central funds devolved as opposed to being entirely funded by local council tax.
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The Teesside public voted him in and he's doing what he said he'd do. If you don't like it vote him out! Next election is coming up.
The subsidies are no different to any airport that subsidies a new route. It happens, it's the industry. Its clear Peel weren't interested so the mayor came in with the promise of making a go of it.
The worry is that the Labour candidate believes this is strange in the industry.... leading to me thinking she can't be trusted or that she doesn't have an understanding of business.
Support the routes and the subsidies wont be needed. If they over achieve it could be that larger aircraft are used and economies of scale are reached thus reducing ticket price further. If it works the whole project could give confidence to other airlines or existing to open new routes and hopefully lead to removal of the passenger departure fee.
Those that keep harping on about alternatives from other airports are clearly from those areas and have an agenda.
Remember this is what the Teesside public wanted.
The subsidies are no different to any airport that subsidies a new route. It happens, it's the industry. Its clear Peel weren't interested so the mayor came in with the promise of making a go of it.
The worry is that the Labour candidate believes this is strange in the industry.... leading to me thinking she can't be trusted or that she doesn't have an understanding of business.
Support the routes and the subsidies wont be needed. If they over achieve it could be that larger aircraft are used and economies of scale are reached thus reducing ticket price further. If it works the whole project could give confidence to other airlines or existing to open new routes and hopefully lead to removal of the passenger departure fee.
Those that keep harping on about alternatives from other airports are clearly from those areas and have an agenda.
Remember this is what the Teesside public wanted.
The subsidies are no different to any airport that subsidies a new route
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- that includes Teesside tax payers
- arguably the people of Teesside could be better served if this centrally funded pot which has been allocated to them, is spent on other projects within Teesside.
The problem with giving central funds to local mayors is that you end up with grand gestures such as the Boris Bridge, or the Boris Cable Car.
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Onion - you are right: this is what people wanted, a stimulus is often needed to kick things off and I can live with that, but we should all accept that when it’s a public money stimulus, there will be added scrutiny and the Mayor and the owners should be ready and willing to defend that.
It makes me feel uncomfortable, but for the sake of long term benefit, it is probably the right thing to do. If other airlines come in as a result, then it will probably be job well done.
With 2021 routes starting to come on sale, I wonder if we dare dream that the intention of winning a lo-co could come to fruition in the
coming weeks...::
It makes me feel uncomfortable, but for the sake of long term benefit, it is probably the right thing to do. If other airlines come in as a result, then it will probably be job well done.
With 2021 routes starting to come on sale, I wonder if we dare dream that the intention of winning a lo-co could come to fruition in the
coming weeks...::
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To the best of my knowledge anything Peel had in the pipeline is now either complete or discarded, so whatever comes next will give a more accurate picture of how effective the new regime is - and I'm sure they will be.
Excellent post Robert...
looking at the broader NE picture..we are a backwater.. HS2.. an expensive folly. No benefit at all to the NE. We are the East Coast line? And the majority of Teesside is outside of that! Aviation the same..whatever we think TIA , NCL and CAX. Will always have a major battle for new routes ,limited passengers and Freight. Because at the end of the day..the country will remain London-centric....
Its a large pie but we have very small pieces and will have to fight for everything..as a result it’s diluted and we end up with negligible amounts!
And the weathers worse here toooooo!
looking at the broader NE picture..we are a backwater.. HS2.. an expensive folly. No benefit at all to the NE. We are the East Coast line? And the majority of Teesside is outside of that! Aviation the same..whatever we think TIA , NCL and CAX. Will always have a major battle for new routes ,limited passengers and Freight. Because at the end of the day..the country will remain London-centric....
Its a large pie but we have very small pieces and will have to fight for everything..as a result it’s diluted and we end up with negligible amounts!
And the weathers worse here toooooo!
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Robert-Ryan I ll give you the Gurnsey but not the other stuff unless you have proof.
That company could not be trusted.
Its more likely that Logan never had any intention to do the other claimed flights and never discussed them or Peel weren't prepared to support them in their endeavours. Yet Peel could of if they had invested what was originally promised.
Peel were (at MME) a horrible company who bullied manipulated and harassed staff. Didnt care for the place and couldn't be trusted. I would quite happily tell any director or senior manager of them that too.
There are several who were on the receiving end of their compassion, and still are.
I'm unsure why you support them but they do not deserve it.
That company could not be trusted.
Its more likely that Logan never had any intention to do the other claimed flights and never discussed them or Peel weren't prepared to support them in their endeavours. Yet Peel could of if they had invested what was originally promised.
Peel were (at MME) a horrible company who bullied manipulated and harassed staff. Didnt care for the place and couldn't be trusted. I would quite happily tell any director or senior manager of them that too.
There are several who were on the receiving end of their compassion, and still are.
I'm unsure why you support them but they do not deserve it.
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onion not looking to start any arguments, Peel employed me for a few years and I never saw that side of them, but I concede from what I hear that previous incarnations of the company were as you described. I can only comment on the version I dealt with which seems to have been very different at the end than the beginning. I supported them when they were here yes, it's a bit strong to say I support them now but I do like things presented correctly and everything I said in my previous post is true
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Get me some traffic
Robert Ryan, I am one of the many unfortunate victims of Peel's greed. I and many good friends and colleagues suffered under the long term plans for profit by a property development company. Peel wanted land to build. £500,000 for the airport, unbelievable. We were culled. Removed to facilitate a building site. People were dismissed by removing them from a presentation. People who spent over 30 years faithful service and believed passionately in the airport were shown the door without even a thank you .I found out that I was sacked when my airport pass wasn't renewed.. Listen to what Onion says, he knows a lot more that went on at that time. Peel tried to close the airport. How do you go from 900,000+ pax to 160,000 in less than 10 years when aviation was growing by 12%+ if you don't have an alternate agenda? Good luck to the new management. They deserve our support. Use it or lose it.
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I'm not disputing the way Peel treated staff; it's quite clear from those who have served longer than I that what you say was correct at one time or another, but I never saw that side of them, or at least nothing on that scale, some mild stuff yes. But, I don't buy the close-to-build argument because ultimately they didn't close and they didn't build. If it were true they'd still be here holding out for near half a billion and the airport would be long gone.
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Debt pile - the need for cash.
I'm not disputing the way Peel treated staff; it's quite clear from those who have served longer than I that what you say was correct at one time or another, but I never saw that side of them, or at least nothing on that scale, some mild stuff yes. But, I don't buy the close-to-build argument because ultimately they didn't close and they didn't build. If it were true they'd still be here holding out for near half a billion and the airport would be long gone.
There was talk of a Hong Kong company putting money in, but dont think thats now happening. Might be a few shopping centres up for sale shortly.
I also heard that the airport staff had a rough time under the other company.
https://old.nasdaq.com/article/uk-pr...20200212-00180
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- competition from other airports is increasing as they know they have to offer deals and attract locos rather than rely on history
- regional flying is becoming very difficult (not just here and not just because of APD and improved rail links, but all over Europe).
-increased cost sensitivity tends towards centralising the operations of locos at bigger airports
- many other reasons!
Aviation may be growing, but not in every sector and not at every airport.
many other reasons!
- being in one of the poorest, most remote areas of the country;
- having to shop in the charity/discount shop end of the market (Globespan/Baby)
12% growth - tell that to Prestwick, Blackpool, Coventry. The difference between MME and other secondary airports - Liverpool succeeded by getting LOCO's in when MAN wasn't interested, Leeds has Jet2, Cardiff the Welsh Govt, DSA suits Wizz's demographic.
Not really viable airport with NCL next door.