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Teesside International Airport-1

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Teesside International Airport-1

Old 27th Oct 2020, 20:41
  #861 (permalink)  
 
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For the airline or passenger? For the airline, things like handling will be more expensive for a limited number of flights as there will be discounts for a based a/c - like other things, the more you buy the cheaper it is!
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Old 27th Oct 2020, 22:38
  #862 (permalink)  
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True, but the difference surely isn't enough to deter operators from providing them like some claim?
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Old 27th Oct 2020, 23:15
  #863 (permalink)  
 
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Presume the catering lorry will have to drive down from Newcastle again as there is no catering at Teesside.
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 09:17
  #864 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cautious Optimist View Post
Question; they say w-patterns are more expensive than routes originating from a base, but I don't see it, perhaps someone can explain where the extra expense comes from?
Although small fry in the grand scheme of things, the cost of getting crew to and from the other base is an expense. If this aircraft is originating in Newcastle, itíll probably be fairly cheap as it could all be done without the use of hotels, however on longer W-sectors that require one or both crews to be in a hotel before or after, thatís up to 12 hotel rooms as well as the transportation expenses. Thatís knocking on the door of £2000 per operation.

A lack of local engineering support and crew standby cover can make it expensive if things go wrong.
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 10:02
  #865 (permalink)  
 
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The mayor will over the costs..don’t fret.
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 10:08
  #866 (permalink)  
 
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But like deja vu. One weekly W flight becomes 2 and then the based NCL aircraft is moved to MME (happened before with both Thomson and Airtours). Somehow doesnít work out as planned and a few years later aircraft ends up back at NCL.....

In the meantime the mayor should be spending money on more worthwhile causes like free school meals perhaps rather than a vanity project (albeit a vet big vanity project!)
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 11:50
  #867 (permalink)  
 
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Need Beafer to find it, think the mayor has given 15k for free meals. The team behind Ben know which strings to pull.
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 18:52
  #868 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GBYAJ View Post
But like deja vu. One weekly W flight becomes 2 and then the based NCL aircraft is moved to MME (happened before with both Thomson and Airtours). Somehow doesnít work out as planned and a few years later aircraft ends up back at NCL.....

In the meantime the mayor should be spending money on more worthwhile causes like free school meals perhaps rather than a vanity project (albeit a vet big vanity project!)
A few years?
Airtours aircraft was Canadian with the crew staying in Yarm and Thomson picked up when Mytravel/Airtours went. I think your few years was nearer 20! IIRC
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 19:15
  #869 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by onion View Post
A few years?
Airtours aircraft was Canadian with the crew staying in Yarm and Thomson picked up when Mytravel/Airtours went. I think your few years was nearer 20! IIRC

Yes it was around 20 years ago! If not more!! But the MME based operation only lasted a few years. shows how long it is since a commercial operator was actually interested in MME.

while Thomson had a based aircraft at MME the NCL base became something like 1.5 aircraft per week the lowest it has been in a summer (except now of course) . While the Airtours Canadian one had been A different leased one at NCL (Excalibur I think)

anyway the jist is canít see it ending well and given the state of the aviation industry I think that the mayors money could be better spent! ☹️ sorry!

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Old 28th Oct 2020, 19:33
  #870 (permalink)  
 
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GBYAJ no, my point is MME had a based IT charter aircraft for around 20 years. They also had many more IT services that weren't done by a based aircraft.
It's not been 20 years since MME had based IT aircraft either.

You just smack of an sore NCL supporter not wanting any competition. Next you ll advocating for MME to completely close.
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 20:19
  #871 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by onion View Post
GBYAJ no, my point is MME had a based IT charter aircraft for around 20 years. They also had many more IT services that weren't done by a based aircraft.
It's not been 20 years since MME had based IT aircraft either.

You just smack of an sore NCL supporter not wanting any competition. Next you ll advocating for MME to completely close.


Mmmm, One weekly proposed TUI flight in 2022 is hardly competition.

The facts on competition over the last 50 years speak for themselves. While MME did have more IT flights than they have now in the late 90ís early 00ís it was never that many..

I was mearly pointing out that if I was a betting man how things would go based on historic performance/ cycles.

the last based Thomson 737 moved to NCL pre 2010 IIRC so it may not be 20 but not recent...

Overall unfortunately given the economic climate Iím happier in the history and nostalgia thread reading about when the Dan air 146ís were based at MME for weekend IT flying. A new flight to LHR in this time is just bamboozling.
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 20:47
  #872 (permalink)  
 
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Accounts - millions in losses before Covid.

Originally Posted by N707ZS View Post
Need Beafer to find it, think the mayor has given 15k for free meals. The team behind Ben know which strings to pull.
I wanted the airport to remain open, but reading the Companies House accounts for Teesside International Airport, the losses of £5.7 million before tax is something the bean counters will be worried about.
https://find-and-update.company-info...filing-history

The last "full accounts" dated 3rd January 2020 pdf download shown in the filing history, mentions on page 2 of the "Strategic Report" that there is a concern about the ongoing losses. The report was signed off by the board of directors.

KLM growth is also mentioned in the same report, but with covid that growth has stopped.

The Mayor may need a lot of government support for the airport, as the next accounts will probably show the ongoing millions in losses has grown. Who will pick up the tab is anyones guess?
Stobart may have other ventures to worry about, so the buck will stop at the Mayors door. The next Mayoral election may change everything again.

Good luck to the people involved in running the airport.
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 21:08
  #873 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Beafer View Post
I wanted the airport to remain open, but reading the Companies House accounts for Teesside International Airport, the losses of £5.7 million before tax is something the bean counters will be worried about.
https://find-and-update.company-info...filing-history

The last "full accounts" dated 3rd January 2020 pdf download shown in the filing history, mentions on page 2 of the "Strategic Report" that there is a concern about the ongoing losses. The report was signed off by the board of directors.

KLM growth is also mentioned in the same report, but with covid that growth has stopped.

The Mayor may need a lot of government support for the airport, as the next accounts will probably show the ongoing millions in losses has grown. Who will pick up the tab is anyones guess?
Stobart may have other ventures to worry about, so the buck will stop at the Mayors door. The next Mayoral election may change everything again.

Good luck to the people involved in running the airport.
The last full accounts were filed on 30 January 2020 - they actually cover the year ending 31 March 2019 so are hardly up to date and remember that Peel controlled the company up until 15 February 2019. The profit figure to look at is the operating profit (loss) of £2.7m, not £5.7m - the £3m difference is a paper loss relating to write down of the value of property.
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 21:46
  #874 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Vokes55 View Post
Although small fry in the grand scheme of things, the cost of getting crew to and from the other base is an expense. If this aircraft is originating in Newcastle, itíll probably be fairly cheap as it could all be done without the use of hotels, however on longer W-sectors that require one or both crews to be in a hotel before or after, thatís up to 12 hotel rooms as well as the transportation expenses. Thatís knocking on the door of £2000 per operation.

A lack of local engineering support and crew standby cover can make it expensive if things go wrong.
I would have thought even the longest of Ws (Tenerife?) from a base much further away than NCL would require just a single crew, no hotel expenses etc, and with modern aircraft and high maintenance standards you shouldn't be factoring in potential costs of engineering support because why anticipate technical faults when the risk should be minimal anyway?
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 22:20
  #875 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cautious Optimist View Post
I would have thought even the longest of Ws (Tenerife?) from a base much further away than NCL would require just a single crew, no hotel expenses etc, and with modern aircraft and high maintenance standards you shouldn't be factoring in potential costs of engineering support because why anticipate technical faults when the risk should be minimal anyway?
So what's in it for the airline? If you can operate a full programme from your base, why would you consider the additional cost and risk of a W flight unless it is going to be more profitable than the equivalent rotation from your base? As it is unlikely that anything on the W is going to be cheaper than operating from your base, you have to charge more...
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 22:25
  #876 (permalink)  
 
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I would have thought even the longest of Ws (Tenerife?) from a base much further away than NCL would require just a single crew, no hotel expenses etc, and with modern aircraft and high maintenance standards you shouldn't be factoring in potential costs of engineering support because why anticipate technical faults when the risk should be minimal anyway?
I think "Boundless Optimist" might be a more appropriate user name with those comments!

You can't operate even NCL-PMI-MME-PMI-NCL within a duty day, let alone NCL-TFS-MME-TFS-NCL. If you are operating the back half of the pattern, MME-TFS-NCL, the start time of the duty is such that you're unlikely to be able to fit in road transfer from NCL to MME before the first sector and still complete the two sectors in the allowable FDP. The crew picking the aircraft up at MME would need to road in the day before and overnight.

You could potentially operate this with no engineering cover. It's probably pretty foolhardy to do so on a long rotation with EU261 liability if it goes wrong even once out of a 26-week season and - in the case of PMI - with passengers connecting to the Marella cruise ship.

And
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 22:32
  #877 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps Tui are looking into a PMI base, similar to what they have done in the Canaries in the winter, and what Jet2 have done at PMI and ALC.

Or it will be someone like Air Europa operating
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 23:41
  #878 (permalink)  
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Yeah I messed up the maths with the TFS example. That said whilst I can see how it's more expensive, it's not more expensive to the point where an operator should be deterred from doing them. Then again I guess they're not because we've got one...
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 23:56
  #879 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GrahamK View Post
Perhaps Tui are looking into a PMI base, similar to what they have done in the Canaries in the winter, and what Jet2 have done at PMI and ALC.

Or it will be someone like Air Europa operating

At the prospect of being called a troll now, read this morning that Air Europa are in dire straits. Havenít paid suppliers for months and taking a 450m loan from the Spanish government, perhaps itíll just be the NCL based TUI plane Wíing in. The NCL based engineer could just pop down the road on the crew bus and then go back with the inbound crew, sorted.
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Old 29th Oct 2020, 06:19
  #880 (permalink)  
 
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Given that NCL is already seeing W flights from other bases, It wouldn't make much sense to fly its based a/c on W flights elsewhere would it?
if it is Tui operating the flight, I suspect it will be a MAN based a/c
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