Manston
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To be fair we would have said that about Southend a few years ago. I could see a few flights from Ryanair. Maybe the odd foreign charter flight to say Spain/Turkey/Cyprus. Apparently KL were quite happy with their twice daily AMS before the airport was forced to close?
I can’t see anything major though on the pax ops like the days of EUJet (who I actually used and were very impressed with).
I can’t see anything major though on the pax ops like the days of EUJet (who I actually used and were very impressed with).
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That’s not just for pax ops though is it. It’s primary purpose is cargo. Pax ops from what I’ve understood are something to be developed after the cargo side has been established, I understand a new terminal building will be built?
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Nice bit of encouraging news in this time of doom and gloom for aviation. 300million ? Won't see any change from that! Massive infrastructure development required to pull this one off, but, if they do it properly it could work.
Airfreight has had a massive wakeup call during this Covid 19 period with belly freight almost non existent due to the rapid reduction in passenger flying. The other companies that tried before got it totally wrong and had different agendas which is why it failed twice.
There will be none of the old smokey, vintage aircraft operating into there as they've all been banned from UK airspace for a number of years. Before the 'Manston knockers' pitch up with their 'no catchment' and poor road links argument if the price is right , they will come. I know people that drive to Scotland to save £500 on a summer holiday when the Scottish schools go back when ours break up. It's all about service and cost. Good service and cheap cost will win out every time with operators and the public.
Manston played a massive part in my life and career and I hope that the new owners get it right and are a success.
Airfreight has had a massive wakeup call during this Covid 19 period with belly freight almost non existent due to the rapid reduction in passenger flying. The other companies that tried before got it totally wrong and had different agendas which is why it failed twice.
There will be none of the old smokey, vintage aircraft operating into there as they've all been banned from UK airspace for a number of years. Before the 'Manston knockers' pitch up with their 'no catchment' and poor road links argument if the price is right , they will come. I know people that drive to Scotland to save £500 on a summer holiday when the Scottish schools go back when ours break up. It's all about service and cost. Good service and cheap cost will win out every time with operators and the public.
Manston played a massive part in my life and career and I hope that the new owners get it right and are a success.
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Manston, UK secures green light to reopen
15.07.2020 - 14:45 UTC
Manston Kent International Airport's owner, RiverOak Strategic Partners (RSP), has secured a Development Consent Order (DCO) from the UK's transport minister, Andrew Stephenson, to rebuild the airport as an international cargo and passenger hub.
The decision, which overruled a Planning Inspectorate recommendation to reject the scheme, envisages the airport in Kent - located at the tip of southeastern England geographically close to continental Europe - to open by 2023.
It will handle up to 10,000 cargo flights a year, according to RSP, as well as passenger services. Construction is due to start in 2021, the Guardian newspaper reported.
Manston's last commercial flights, a KLM Royal Dutch Airlines service to Amsterdam Schiphol, operated until April 2014. The site was then bought for a nominal GBP1 pound (USD1.25) a year before being sold to developers and earmarked for housing.
RiverOak, which acquired Manston for GBP16.5 million (USD21.7 million) in July 2019, has promised that its GBP300 million (USD375 million) project to reopen it will create more than 23,000 jobs. Recently, it has pressed its case by arguing that the Covid-19 pandemic and Brexit have amplified the need for more specialist cargo capacity.
"Once built, Manston will be one of the most modern, efficient, and environmentally-friendly freight hubs in the world," claimed Tony Freudmann, the developer's director.
Roger Gale, Member of Parliament for the relatively deprived area, North Thanet, where the airport is located, said: "This national asset has been closed for far too long, but it can now play a critical role in delivering jobs and investment. [...] Post-Brexit Britain is going to need additional air freight capacity and Manston can offer this swiftly."
However, the local No Night Flights campaign group and the Green Party both said they would challenge the decision, arguing that there was no evidence the project would create jobs.
Manston Kent International Airport's owner, RiverOak Strategic Partners (RSP), has secured a Development Consent Order (DCO) from the UK's transport minister, Andrew Stephenson, to rebuild the airport as an international cargo and passenger hub.
The decision, which overruled a Planning Inspectorate recommendation to reject the scheme, envisages the airport in Kent - located at the tip of southeastern England geographically close to continental Europe - to open by 2023.
It will handle up to 10,000 cargo flights a year, according to RSP, as well as passenger services. Construction is due to start in 2021, the Guardian newspaper reported.
Manston's last commercial flights, a KLM Royal Dutch Airlines service to Amsterdam Schiphol, operated until April 2014. The site was then bought for a nominal GBP1 pound (USD1.25) a year before being sold to developers and earmarked for housing.
RiverOak, which acquired Manston for GBP16.5 million (USD21.7 million) in July 2019, has promised that its GBP300 million (USD375 million) project to reopen it will create more than 23,000 jobs. Recently, it has pressed its case by arguing that the Covid-19 pandemic and Brexit have amplified the need for more specialist cargo capacity.
"Once built, Manston will be one of the most modern, efficient, and environmentally-friendly freight hubs in the world," claimed Tony Freudmann, the developer's director.
Roger Gale, Member of Parliament for the relatively deprived area, North Thanet, where the airport is located, said: "This national asset has been closed for far too long, but it can now play a critical role in delivering jobs and investment. [...] Post-Brexit Britain is going to need additional air freight capacity and Manston can offer this swiftly."
However, the local No Night Flights campaign group and the Green Party both said they would challenge the decision, arguing that there was no evidence the project would create jobs.
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Judicial review is being launched to challenge the Secretary of State's decision to grant the DCO against the recommendations of the Government Planning Inspectorate. JR is crowd funded by local residents. Initial target of £12k was reached in 2 hours. Now approaching £30k
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On what grounds is the JR being sought?
AFAIK, it can only be brought on the grounds of illegality, irrationality or procedural unfairness and not to re-argue the merits of the development. So it normally depends on whether the SoS has misinterpreted policy, not considered the environmental effects or the process itself was unfair. Just reaching a different decision to the Planning Inspector isn’t sufficient grounds.
Even the LHR JR didn’t reverse the decision, just found that the SoS hadn’t properly considered the environmental impact and would need to do so. Only after reconsidering that impact could the decision be reconfirmed or changed - not the JR itself.
AFAIK, it can only be brought on the grounds of illegality, irrationality or procedural unfairness and not to re-argue the merits of the development. So it normally depends on whether the SoS has misinterpreted policy, not considered the environmental effects or the process itself was unfair. Just reaching a different decision to the Planning Inspector isn’t sufficient grounds.
Even the LHR JR didn’t reverse the decision, just found that the SoS hadn’t properly considered the environmental impact and would need to do so. Only after reconsidering that impact could the decision be reconfirmed or changed - not the JR itself.
Last edited by Trash 'n' Navs; 18th Jul 2020 at 08:59. Reason: Changed “decided” to “found”
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10,000 movements per year is not 10,000 aircraft, it is 5,000 aircraft, each movement being an arrival or departure, to arrive and depart would be two movements, milking the figures perhaps!
So 5,000 aircraft per year would be 13.7 aircraft per day, allowing for a night curfew around one aircraft every 74 minutes, an arrival or departure every 37 minutes, courier movements excluded is there any UK airport that has this volume of dedicated freighter movements?
And it remains that Manston's 2,748m runway simply isn't long enough for heavy freighters which, reading back, there appears to be a misconception regarding, a lack of knowledge of runway and aircraft performance perhaps.
An example of this is the TK6491 crash in Bishkek, that aircraft wasn't routing thru FRU for a traffic stop, it was merely a refuelling stop whilst en-route HKG/IST. Block time of 11hr 20min HKG/IST should be a walk in the park for a B747-400 but not when loaded up to max payload, as so many freighters regularly are, and between max payload and MTOW off HKG's 3,800m runway they simply couldn't get enough fuel on to route direct HKG/IST.
And doubters please, by all means, work out the max payload and then fuel up to MTOW off Manston's 2,748m runway, calculate the total fuel on board and recognise just how far such a B747-400F could get before it needs to stop for fuel again.
I'm ex RAF and I grew up on the Kent/Surrey border so I would like to see Manston survive but to suggest that an airfield way out on a peninsula like it is and with less than desirable road connections is going to attract so many dedicated freighter movements, heavy movements excluded, every 37 minutes has to be living in cloud cuckoo land.
Some airports that struggle for catchment make money from on-site maintenance facilities, OK deals are done to attract the maintenance facility but thereafter revenue is generated from landing & navigation charges, aircraft parking, refuelling, such maintenance facilities attract aircraft storage revenue, NWI, EXT, CWL, QLA to name a few, just check on GE the number of Saabs parked up at Orebro, Sweden because of an on site maintenance facility, sure Manston can make SOME revenue from freight but not enough to make the site viable, someone should be out there trying to attract a maintenance facility, some general aviation etc, after all Kent is a beautiful place to live and to visit.
So 5,000 aircraft per year would be 13.7 aircraft per day, allowing for a night curfew around one aircraft every 74 minutes, an arrival or departure every 37 minutes, courier movements excluded is there any UK airport that has this volume of dedicated freighter movements?
And it remains that Manston's 2,748m runway simply isn't long enough for heavy freighters which, reading back, there appears to be a misconception regarding, a lack of knowledge of runway and aircraft performance perhaps.
An example of this is the TK6491 crash in Bishkek, that aircraft wasn't routing thru FRU for a traffic stop, it was merely a refuelling stop whilst en-route HKG/IST. Block time of 11hr 20min HKG/IST should be a walk in the park for a B747-400 but not when loaded up to max payload, as so many freighters regularly are, and between max payload and MTOW off HKG's 3,800m runway they simply couldn't get enough fuel on to route direct HKG/IST.
And doubters please, by all means, work out the max payload and then fuel up to MTOW off Manston's 2,748m runway, calculate the total fuel on board and recognise just how far such a B747-400F could get before it needs to stop for fuel again.
I'm ex RAF and I grew up on the Kent/Surrey border so I would like to see Manston survive but to suggest that an airfield way out on a peninsula like it is and with less than desirable road connections is going to attract so many dedicated freighter movements, heavy movements excluded, every 37 minutes has to be living in cloud cuckoo land.
Some airports that struggle for catchment make money from on-site maintenance facilities, OK deals are done to attract the maintenance facility but thereafter revenue is generated from landing & navigation charges, aircraft parking, refuelling, such maintenance facilities attract aircraft storage revenue, NWI, EXT, CWL, QLA to name a few, just check on GE the number of Saabs parked up at Orebro, Sweden because of an on site maintenance facility, sure Manston can make SOME revenue from freight but not enough to make the site viable, someone should be out there trying to attract a maintenance facility, some general aviation etc, after all Kent is a beautiful place to live and to visit.
Last edited by OC37; 19th Jul 2020 at 07:01.
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Personally I really do think some people and companies want a reality check. 10,000 movements a year, come on. Manston is over 70 miles from London and has no major towns/cities close or even reasonably near. Where is the UK's major air freight hub - East Midlands - right bang in the middle of the country. Come on let us have a bit of realism here, it is not or ever will be a major airport, sorry for those in Kent who want employment. Better get Failing Grayling on the job!
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Just my two pennies: it takes a Eurostar train approximately 30 minutes to travel from London St Pancras to Ashford, add 12 minutes to Manston, if (partially) new high-speed tracks were built further to this airport... Considering passenger services, not bad at all. No cost-effectiveness analysis here, pondering only.
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Ashford might be in the same county but it is nowhere even close to Manston, Manston has a couple of commuter rail lines close by, kind of like putting high-speed non-stop trains between London and Southend airport, it can't be done without crashing in to the back of regularly stopping commuter trains.
Last edited by OC37; 20th Jul 2020 at 07:02.
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They'll make tonnes more money renting out their 165+ acres of concrete and tarmac to the UK government for a lorry park post December 31st than they ever will from aviation, albeit at half an hour/20 miles from Dover, it's not ideally located for one of those post-Brexit transition period new border inspection posts.
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OC37
The HS1 high speed South Eastern trains (Javelin) run between Ashford and London daily and at the end of their shift they bed down for the night at the Ramsgate sidings. Ramsgate station is a 7 minute drive from the airport. The Javelin service runs slow to Ashford and then operates as a High Speed service to London. In pre COVID times the journey time was just over the hour to get into London (Stratford interchange was substantially under the hour mark).
Of course the renewal of Manston is not predicated on pax traffic but freight for which it is ideally suited, has a pre-existing BIP and high quality chilled freight sheds. The USP is that the Cargolux 747s could get their first pallets onto waiting lorries and on the road to London within 40 minutes of touching down. In all likelihood cargo landing at Manston could be in the London morning markets well before Heathrow cargo has even left the airport boundary.
The HS1 high speed South Eastern trains (Javelin) run between Ashford and London daily and at the end of their shift they bed down for the night at the Ramsgate sidings. Ramsgate station is a 7 minute drive from the airport. The Javelin service runs slow to Ashford and then operates as a High Speed service to London. In pre COVID times the journey time was just over the hour to get into London (Stratford interchange was substantially under the hour mark).
Of course the renewal of Manston is not predicated on pax traffic but freight for which it is ideally suited, has a pre-existing BIP and high quality chilled freight sheds. The USP is that the Cargolux 747s could get their first pallets onto waiting lorries and on the road to London within 40 minutes of touching down. In all likelihood cargo landing at Manston could be in the London morning markets well before Heathrow cargo has even left the airport boundary.
compton3bravo
Quite so.
In order to justify a freight hub at Manston, one would need to redefine the word "hub" to mean a point that's as far away as possible, on average, from everywhere else in the country.
Quite so.
In order to justify a freight hub at Manston, one would need to redefine the word "hub" to mean a point that's as far away as possible, on average, from everywhere else in the country.
Of course the renewal of Manston is not predicated on pax traffic but freight for which it is ideally suited, has a pre-existing BIP and high quality chilled freight sheds. The USP is that the Cargolux 747s could get their first pallets onto waiting lorries and on the road to London within 40 minutes of touching down. In all likelihood cargo landing at Manston could be in the London morning markets well before Heathrow cargo has even left the airport boundary.
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Yep, some really good points here, it is sad how many of the yokels have immediately boarded the outrage bus, assuming Manston is on the verge of becoming the next LHR. As has been stated the chances of that happening are non existent. Doubtess what they will get, in time, is some form of ugly mixed use housing / industrial development....
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asdf1234
Precisely what description of cargo are Cargolux B747's going to be flying-in that needs to be in the London Markets so PDQ, how many B747's per day is that likely to warrant, where shall they be flying in from and what description of backloads shall they be flying out of Manston or another not so far away airport> I recall when the there was a problem shipping across the channel, I can't recall if the cause was the French ports blockade or the Channel Tunnel fire, but then the major food chains were making contingencies of such as, turboprops, B737's or similar freighters out of the likes of CQF & OST to UK, not B747's!
But the air freight industry works on backloads, one way traffic and the other way ferry flying makes for very expensive cargo, backloads out of Kenya are flowers, out of Ghana pineapples, so any freighters dropping off anywhere in the vicinity of those drops in to pick-up a backload of flowers or pineapples, what backloads are there to be had out of Manston?
And with London taken care of what about feeding the rest of the country and what about all the other Manston freighter arrivals of one per 74 minutes?
And, let's say, Manston has a night curfew until 0600L, what time allowing for unloading then reloading on to trucks, less than desirable roads, morning rush hour, unloading and sorting, how is it going to make it to a London morning market?
Precisely what description of cargo are Cargolux B747's going to be flying-in that needs to be in the London Markets so PDQ, how many B747's per day is that likely to warrant, where shall they be flying in from and what description of backloads shall they be flying out of Manston or another not so far away airport> I recall when the there was a problem shipping across the channel, I can't recall if the cause was the French ports blockade or the Channel Tunnel fire, but then the major food chains were making contingencies of such as, turboprops, B737's or similar freighters out of the likes of CQF & OST to UK, not B747's!
But the air freight industry works on backloads, one way traffic and the other way ferry flying makes for very expensive cargo, backloads out of Kenya are flowers, out of Ghana pineapples, so any freighters dropping off anywhere in the vicinity of those drops in to pick-up a backload of flowers or pineapples, what backloads are there to be had out of Manston?
And with London taken care of what about feeding the rest of the country and what about all the other Manston freighter arrivals of one per 74 minutes?
And, let's say, Manston has a night curfew until 0600L, what time allowing for unloading then reloading on to trucks, less than desirable roads, morning rush hour, unloading and sorting, how is it going to make it to a London morning market?
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'Best place for a new UK cargo hub then?'
'Well.....how about Manston?'
'It's the furthest possible point from the centre of the UK, does that really make sense?'
'Er, well, maybe, but hey, they've got an allowance of 14 landings a day, so that's got to be a good thing though?'
'Well.....how about Manston?'
'It's the furthest possible point from the centre of the UK, does that really make sense?'
'Er, well, maybe, but hey, they've got an allowance of 14 landings a day, so that's got to be a good thing though?'
