New air carrier from Wales
i see J41 a/c mentioned but i thought valley can only handle a/c up to load 19 pax
same as ISC and lands end
same as ISC and lands end
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In the end it would be great for VLY and North West Wales to get a London route especially to help with inbound tourism but the chances of it happening unless it's a PSO is practically zero.
Eastern Airways uses a J41 on the CWL-VLY route but they are capped at 19 seats.
In the end it would be great for VLY and North West Wales to get a London route especially to help with inbound tourism but the chances of it happening unless it's a PSO is practically zero.
In the end it would be great for VLY and North West Wales to get a London route especially to help with inbound tourism but the chances of it happening unless it's a PSO is practically zero.
really then its a twin otter job would be ideal
but the distances to travel in one of those more than an hour or so are rather
unappealing to many pax -
Ext-ISC is 135 miles and takes just under an hour and SOU to ISC takes almost 2 hours and often stops at EXT
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The only London airport that could even be considered for such a route would be Southend, and even that's never going to happen. Operating to LTN or STN, never mind slot restrained LHR, LGW and LCY, could never be feasible given the small aircraft size and would be a complete failure, even with heavy government subsidies.
I think it's perhaps useful if we all remind ourselves that several years ago Gatwick changed its pricing policy so that small aircraft ended up paying almost the same per aircraft (not per pax) as a 150 seat A320 / B737. The result was that Flybe with 78 seat Dash 8 aircraft saw the airport charge per pax becoming unsustainable when considered against what price pax were willing to pay for tickets. Flybe appealed to the CAA but lost.
The move by Gatwick was likely an attempt to force small aircraft out - the airport at the time had a policy of aiming to increase the average number of pax per aircraft movement.
I imagine Stansted would adopt a similiar pricing policy if anyone tried putting 19 seaters into STN over the summer period. Luton has recently begun making life more difficult for private jets in favour of A320 / B737 aircraft. Slots at Heathrow will be far too expensive for 19 seaters and City is closed for 24 hours at the weekend.
Unless someone can come up with a big chunk of Govt subsidy (like Dundee) or get major political support in Westminster, the only viable London airport for Anglesey is (as stated above) Southend.
The move by Gatwick was likely an attempt to force small aircraft out - the airport at the time had a policy of aiming to increase the average number of pax per aircraft movement.
I imagine Stansted would adopt a similiar pricing policy if anyone tried putting 19 seaters into STN over the summer period. Luton has recently begun making life more difficult for private jets in favour of A320 / B737 aircraft. Slots at Heathrow will be far too expensive for 19 seaters and City is closed for 24 hours at the weekend.
Unless someone can come up with a big chunk of Govt subsidy (like Dundee) or get major political support in Westminster, the only viable London airport for Anglesey is (as stated above) Southend.
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Forget the Twin Otter except on routes where it's STOL capabilities are essential, it is slow, fixed undercarriage, unpressuised, noisy and not a pleasant experience.
As for suggestions of a J41 but with a restricted load, great, paying Eiurocontrol, fuel, landing/navigation fees etc. for some 10+ seats that shall forever remain empty, not a good business plan if the objective is to make money.
The Do228 on the other hand, PDQ, pressurised and retractable gear.
As for suggestions of a J41 but with a restricted load, great, paying Eiurocontrol, fuel, landing/navigation fees etc. for some 10+ seats that shall forever remain empty, not a good business plan if the objective is to make money.
The Do228 on the other hand, PDQ, pressurised and retractable gear.
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This thread moved from 'direct connections to the Americas and mainland Europe' to a few extra seats from Anglesey very quickly. This may say something about the potential for such an airline.
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Call me old-fashioned but last time I checked Angelsey was in Wales, the OP didn't specify CWL, Hawarden, Canaefon, Aberporth, Swansea nor any of the others that I can't be bothered to recall the identities of.
The facts are that north and south Wales is divided by a sparsely populated centre.
The area from Anglesey to Deeside is well served by the A55 Expressway which connects nicely with Liverpool and Manchester airports.
South Wales has the M4 which serves all the highly populated area up to Carmarthenshire with rapid connections to CWL,Bristol,Heathrow and Birmingham.
I cannot see who a Welsh airline would serve.
The Cardiff to Valley flights have been highly supported by public money and the passengers mostly Welsh politicians and BBC / S4C media folk who claim the cost back on expenses.
In the days of Airways Cymru and Inter European these were charter companies built off the back of Red Dragon Travel and Aspro Holidays bookings.
A lot of my GA friends from Rhoose went on to fly for Tony Clemmo and Air Inter European.
With the likes of Ryanair and most travellers now favouring direct internet booking the chances of another airline emerging in Wales is remote.
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 26th Mar 2018 at 09:43.
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I think you will find that these onetime charter carriers, although seemingly based at Cardiff, in fact got the bulk of their operations flying the likes of Birmingham to Malaga etc, or doing subcharters for European operators. I never actually saw them at Cardiff, but did at Manchester and Palma.
We did see them at Cardiff although as you correctly say they got the bulk of their work outside Wales.
Indeed my friends working for Air Inter European helped to break the Australian pilots strike when I lived downunder in 1989.Aspro were so lucky they had new aircraft unlike the problems that Airways Cymru encountered.
Indeed my friends working for Air Inter European helped to break the Australian pilots strike when I lived downunder in 1989.Aspro were so lucky they had new aircraft unlike the problems that Airways Cymru encountered.
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I love the comments it’ll never work etc. Of course it would. It would however canabalise the existing network from Cardiff and would operate feeders from the north. Wouldn’t be great for competition but there is a market for air travel from Wales.
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We did see them at Cardiff although as you correctly say they got the bulk of their work outside Wales.
Indeed my friends working for Air Inter European helped to break the Australian pilots strike when I lived downunder in 1989.Aspro were so lucky they had new aircraft unlike the problems that Airways Cymru encountered.
Indeed my friends working for Air Inter European helped to break the Australian pilots strike when I lived downunder in 1989.Aspro were so lucky they had new aircraft unlike the problems that Airways Cymru encountered.
2nd season with 2 x B737-300's one based at CWL, one at BRS.
3rd season Monarch's G-MONP joined the fleet, recall BFS & MAN and perhaps LTN coming in to the equation
Then 4th B737-300 G-IEAA came along just as the Aussie domestic pilots downed tools, that was it, one and then a 2nd aircraft, and your truly to manage the operation, off to Oz initially based in MEL before our then permanent base of ADL, 40 degrees in the shade over new year was so bad we demanded danger money
Then the first B757 came along, thereafter ex Air Europe moved in and A320's became the thing, of course IEA expanded outside of Wales because an airline cannot expand from one solitary regional airport.
Let it not be missed that the Asprou family were/are Greek Cypriots, Cypus and then Greece were their primary markets and I recall Cypriot operations thru GLA and NCL to name but two.
The rest is history.
Last edited by Harry Wayfarers; 26th Mar 2018 at 12:03.
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I've never understood why the north-south link operates to middle-of-nowhere Valley, far from the population centres. I'm sure Airbus at Hawarden could be persuaded to accommodate them, which would make it a worthwhile service, and serve the most populous town in North Wales, which is Wrexham, as well as being more convenient for the other coastal towns.
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I've never understood why the north-south link operates to middle-of-nowhere Valley, far from the population centres. I'm sure Airbus at Hawarden could be persuaded to accommodate them, which would make it a worthwhile service, and serve the most populous town in North Wales, which is Wrexham, as well as being more convenient for the other coastal towns.
BBC Wales and and a lot of independant Welsh language tv production companies supplying S4C have a major presence in Gwynedd.
They along with Welsh politicians make up most of the numbers who want an air service between Valley and Cardiff.
It certainly has been a political route just like the free Traws Cymru bus which travels mid Wales empty.
Funding for the air route over the years has come from the EEC.
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TBH most people in the north rarely go south and vice versa
practically the N coast is a dormitory commuter land of Liverpool and Chester and Cardiff is part of a Cardiff/Gloucester/Cheltenham/Bristol/ Bath economic area
The politicians can talk all they like about a Welsh nation but practically it's two areas separated by a great empty zone
practically the N coast is a dormitory commuter land of Liverpool and Chester and Cardiff is part of a Cardiff/Gloucester/Cheltenham/Bristol/ Bath economic area
The politicians can talk all they like about a Welsh nation but practically it's two areas separated by a great empty zone