British Airways
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I overheard a conversation in my dry cleaners which brought home the sad results of Covid 19 on BA. There was a gentleman in front of me on Sat who was a BA LH Captain who had flown back from SA early last week, and was told the following day that he was being made redundant after 30+ years with BA. He felt a little cheated as he did want to carry on for a while longer, but also because he did not know that was to be his last flight, and there was no Fire engine salute or anything to mark it, which I have to say I totally sympathise with him about. If he had at least known, as he said he would have savoured it more.
Kind regards
Mr Mac
Kind regards
Mr Mac
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I am afraid there are many 1000 s of us in the same situation as him
No last flight or able to say goodbye properly ( 37yrs and just hand back your uniform )
The fire brigade would be permanently at the end of the runway for years seeing everyone off !!
A truly disgraceful way to end our careers from a very disgraceful company which they have turned out to be
No last flight or able to say goodbye properly ( 37yrs and just hand back your uniform )
The fire brigade would be permanently at the end of the runway for years seeing everyone off !!
A truly disgraceful way to end our careers from a very disgraceful company which they have turned out to be
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It is sad that many staff didn’t get to say their goodbyes but I believe it’s probably the case in several companies right now sadly.
There are tens of thousands of people losing their jobs across the UK. Yes, that includes people with high levels of education who've kept their nose clean and done the right thing for their employer for years
I very much doubt much of the UK really cares if somebody who has had a well paid job for 30 years gets laid off. There is no magic to pilots which means they have a right not to be laid off like others
I very much doubt much of the UK really cares if somebody who has had a well paid job for 30 years gets laid off. There is no magic to pilots which means they have a right not to be laid off like others
And yet here you are... 🙄
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Rogueone / david johnson6
I take your point about the fire engine thing, but it was done before Covid 19 as you should know. However you would have thought that the HR Dept would be able to tell someone before there flight that it would indeed be their last one before retirement or redundancy, or were they worried how that would impact on said pilots train of thought. I would have thought that given that you have trusted the individual to fly your A/C for 30 + years without incident, in no doubt some difficult conditions you would at least be able to do that. I hope when or if I have to let any of my employees go due to Covid I make a better fist of it than that . Indeed over my career it has been done to me, and I have had in the past had to let people go, but it does not say much for the expensive HR training carried out on people in that department throughout industry that the best they can do was that which was imparted last week.
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Mr Mac
I take your point about the fire engine thing, but it was done before Covid 19 as you should know. However you would have thought that the HR Dept would be able to tell someone before there flight that it would indeed be their last one before retirement or redundancy, or were they worried how that would impact on said pilots train of thought. I would have thought that given that you have trusted the individual to fly your A/C for 30 + years without incident, in no doubt some difficult conditions you would at least be able to do that. I hope when or if I have to let any of my employees go due to Covid I make a better fist of it than that . Indeed over my career it has been done to me, and I have had in the past had to let people go, but it does not say much for the expensive HR training carried out on people in that department throughout industry that the best they can do was that which was imparted last week.
Kind regards
Mr Mac
I overheard a conversation in my dry cleaners which brought home the sad results of Covid 19 on BA. There was a gentleman in front of me on Sat who was a BA LH Captain who had flown back from SA early last week, and was told the following day that he was being made redundant after 30+ years with BA.
AFAIK no pilots that senior in BA have been made compulsory redundant..so far that has only happened the bottom 250 pilots plus/minus, who in the main joined BA in the last year or two.
If he'd applied for Voluntary Redundancy he would have known what was in store and FWIW I don't know anybody who only got one days notice - in any event I certainly wouldn't label that as being "made" redundant
BA haven't routinely "done" fire arches for retirements for years - if at all in living memory at LHR, I've certainly never witnessed ones on the retirement trips I've been involved with. The best you'll get these days is a picture handed to you in crew report by a manager...
In current circumstances with hundreds of pilots leaving either forced or voluntarily over the next few days and weeks I doubt even a picture will be handed out.
Last edited by wiggy; 25th Aug 2020 at 09:21.
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Wiggy
As I said I take the point re fire arches but I have seen it done for other retiring pilots for other carriers at other airports, but as I said I do not know if BA did this as I no longer use BA or indeed LHR very much now, but he mentioned it. The gentleman said he had 30+ years with BA and had come back from SA on Monday last week, and was then made redundant, as he did not know it was to be his last flight it did not sound like voluntary redundancy to me, as normally you would apply for that beforehand so would know presumably that this would be your last trip. Anyway I sympathise with those losing their jobs, and indeed those having retirement forced upon them regardless as to how well off they have been, as these are people with hopes and dreams just like everybody else, and it did not sound like the way you would like to round out your career.
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Mr Mac
As I said I take the point re fire arches but I have seen it done for other retiring pilots for other carriers at other airports, but as I said I do not know if BA did this as I no longer use BA or indeed LHR very much now, but he mentioned it. The gentleman said he had 30+ years with BA and had come back from SA on Monday last week, and was then made redundant, as he did not know it was to be his last flight it did not sound like voluntary redundancy to me, as normally you would apply for that beforehand so would know presumably that this would be your last trip. Anyway I sympathise with those losing their jobs, and indeed those having retirement forced upon them regardless as to how well off they have been, as these are people with hopes and dreams just like everybody else, and it did not sound like the way you would like to round out your career.
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Mr Mac
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I think the HR team are a tad bit busy to be emailing airports notifying them of a Pilot’s last flight. I mean I don’t expect to get dowsed in water when I leave a job. It was a nice thing to do in the past but times are changing.
People were being called on their mobile phones while making their way to work last week, made redundant. No last day to say good bye to your mates, just not allowed back in.
Two days later, the phone calls were along the lines of "very sorry but we made a mistake, can you come back in please?"
Nuts!
Two days later, the phone calls were along the lines of "very sorry but we made a mistake, can you come back in please?"
Nuts!
Once upon a time a proper pilot manager would actually come on board the aircraft on arrival at LHR and give the retiring captain a thank you hand shake, usually done in First Class with the crew present..that died out for various reasons. For while after that there was no "ceremony" at all. In recent years there has been a bit of an attempt to restore some respectability with the picture taking I mentioned earlier.
The gentleman said he had 30+ years with BA and had come back from SA on Monday last week, and was then made redundant, as he did not know it was to be his last flight it did not sound like voluntary redundancy to me, as normally you would apply for that beforehand so would know presumably that this would be your last trip.
At BA many pilots had rosters decimated as flights were cancelled due to poor passenger loads, that then resulted with many only maintaining recency by use of the simulator. Offer of VR comes along, and bingo, for many, self included, that's it.....You end up waiting for the exit date and your last sector is a distant memory.
As for the conversation you overheard - Knowing first hand how both the Voluntary Redundancy process and (by word of mouth) how the Compulsory redundancy process for pilots has been done at BA I'm really really struggling to work out the mechanism by which a 30+ year captain can suddenly find himself in the situation you heard described i.e. Operated a Long Haul trip, day later told he's being laid off....There simply has to be more to it...
Last edited by wiggy; 25th Aug 2020 at 13:49.
It's quite common in large companies that an employee comes to work as usual one day, receives a phonecall from their manager asking them to come to a meeting room where HR are present (act as witness and ensure process is followed strictly in case employee decides to sue for unfair dismissal), pre-prepared "consultation" papers are handed over, employee is escorted to their desk to put belongings in cardboard box and then escorted off premises. Phonecall to walking out the building in 20 mins. No sympathy, no support, just HR following a process
Most managers when told "you must cut 30% of cost of employees reporting to you or we will get rid of you as well" will usually happily come up with a list of names to be given a P45
BA HR will think the same way as HR at any other large company - loyalty means nothing to HR when they have to cut 30% of costs and you are just one of a long list of names in a spreadsheet.
Most managers when told "you must cut 30% of cost of employees reporting to you or we will get rid of you as well" will usually happily come up with a list of names to be given a P45
BA HR will think the same way as HR at any other large company - loyalty means nothing to HR when they have to cut 30% of costs and you are just one of a long list of names in a spreadsheet.
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 25th Aug 2020 at 15:57.
That can't be right - it would involve HR actually getting involved, rather than just dumping it onto managers. Surely they'd have important meetings to attend, etc.?
davejohnson6 - Agreed...
In normal times BA had a system where you could select a pre-retirement trip to be taken in the last few months prior to your known retirement date ...it didn't get you the fire arch but gave you the chance to pick a trip to go somewhere nice if you couldn't usually get it as a result of seniority and the normal bidding process.
Thing is we're not in normal times right now and the priority for scheduling staff ATM is fire fighting - they need all of the reduced sectors they can lay their hands on in Long Haul to get or keep people "recent" and/or in check....I rather suspect they haven't got the time or the inclination to start allocating retirement trips for those about to hang up their headsets when they need those rare as rocking horse do-do Long Haul sectors for those who are staying on.
Frankly whatever the reason for the overheard conversation as a 30 year plus ex'ish Long haul captain I really hope none of my colleagues of similar seniority would not be complaining in public about not getting a hearty send off ATM ...I'm saving my sympathy for the 250 plus junior pilots who without any doubt at all have been laid off at short notice without farewell trips..(and of course sympathy for the likes of TURIN's colleagues).
In normal times BA had a system where you could select a pre-retirement trip to be taken in the last few months prior to your known retirement date ...it didn't get you the fire arch but gave you the chance to pick a trip to go somewhere nice if you couldn't usually get it as a result of seniority and the normal bidding process.
Thing is we're not in normal times right now and the priority for scheduling staff ATM is fire fighting - they need all of the reduced sectors they can lay their hands on in Long Haul to get or keep people "recent" and/or in check....I rather suspect they haven't got the time or the inclination to start allocating retirement trips for those about to hang up their headsets when they need those rare as rocking horse do-do Long Haul sectors for those who are staying on.
Frankly whatever the reason for the overheard conversation as a 30 year plus ex'ish Long haul captain I really hope none of my colleagues of similar seniority would not be complaining in public about not getting a hearty send off ATM ...I'm saving my sympathy for the 250 plus junior pilots who without any doubt at all have been laid off at short notice without farewell trips..(and of course sympathy for the likes of TURIN's colleagues).
Last edited by wiggy; 25th Aug 2020 at 16:06.
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Wiggy
Sorry to hear that, and best of luck with the VR with BA and your future, whatever you want that to be.
davidjohnson6
Yes I have had that done to me in early 90,s recession, and I made a deal with myself that when it came to my turn to run a company I would treat my staff better than that ,despite what they may or may not have done, and also despite what a HR Dept recommended. So far I have lost 3 staff since 1997 two for misconduct (24hrs notice) and one due to her not wishing to relocate (3 months pay after 4 years service). Obviously some people have left to further careers elsewhere, and depending on the role dictates their leaving notice period. Sales people typically in my sector are re-leaved pretty quickly due to ostensible poaching of clients (any half decent person will already have got contacts etc before resigning in my opinion) as a result we do not escort of the property that day but will wait 48 hrs. I believe it is important to treat people properly as it is your reputation as a company, and as a person that suffers any fall out, and if everyone leaves on good terms there is always a route back for all with out, as the Chinese say, a loss of face. We employ and indeed train good people so I would always look to take them back if asked.
Sorry to hear that, and best of luck with the VR with BA and your future, whatever you want that to be.
davidjohnson6
Yes I have had that done to me in early 90,s recession, and I made a deal with myself that when it came to my turn to run a company I would treat my staff better than that ,despite what they may or may not have done, and also despite what a HR Dept recommended. So far I have lost 3 staff since 1997 two for misconduct (24hrs notice) and one due to her not wishing to relocate (3 months pay after 4 years service). Obviously some people have left to further careers elsewhere, and depending on the role dictates their leaving notice period. Sales people typically in my sector are re-leaved pretty quickly due to ostensible poaching of clients (any half decent person will already have got contacts etc before resigning in my opinion) as a result we do not escort of the property that day but will wait 48 hrs. I believe it is important to treat people properly as it is your reputation as a company, and as a person that suffers any fall out, and if everyone leaves on good terms there is always a route back for all with out, as the Chinese say, a loss of face. We employ and indeed train good people so I would always look to take them back if asked.
Last edited by Mr Mac; 26th Aug 2020 at 06:44.
