British Airways

[Skipness One Echo]

Back to the horrible 3+4+3 layout

Not quite, the seats from the old 10 abreast AML days were way heavier and bulkier and there just wasn't the space. Nowadays, even the likes of Cathay (soon) and Air New Zealand are 10 abreast in the B77W as the seat is lighter. If you want the comfort of Economy from ye-olden-days then that's now Premium Economy, with a price still lower than some Y from ye-olde 19 hundred and 90s.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

Fair enough. Looks like BA must have amended its plans since the original announcement it made to the capital markets

Better picture of the layout below (predates the change from 48W to 52W).

Looks like the extra 4W must be one more double on either side (since the middle seats are staggered in the W cabin and there's no space for an extra centre row).

I'm tempted to wonder whether the extra doubles require tweaking the 38" seat pitch in a downwards direction. That'll go down well ...

[BAladdy]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

Better picture of the layout below (predates the change from 48W to 52W).

Looks like the extra 4W must be one more double on either side (since the middle seats are staggered in the W cabin and there's no space for an extra centre row).

I'm tempted to wonder whether the extra doubles require tweaking the 38" seat pitch in a downwards direction. That'll go down well ...

Wonder no more!!... I can confirm that the seat pitch is 38” throughout the whole WTP cabin. The diagram posted was originally released 15 months ago. It was used to give investors a idea of how the cabins would look once the cabin it had been reconfigured.

The cabin layout diagram posted shows 2 good size wardrobes on either side of the cabin aft of DR2. BA decided to have them removed. This freed up space for the two extra seats to be fitted on either side.

Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo

Because it's changing subfleets from 4 class to 3. It won't be going to BGI anymore for example.

When the 777 cabin reconfiguration was announced BA said that plannned to fit a high density cabin to some of its 3 class 777’s and LGW and they planned to fit 25 777’s with a 10 across Y cabin. BA plan to totally refurbish the remaining 3 4 class aircraft it has based at LGW however there are no plans to make turn then 3 class aircraft. The aircaft will be fitted a 10 across economy cabin which so it they will return to service in a new 14F/48J/40W/136Y configuration. The 4 class aircraft are not planned to have there

G-VIIO/R/P/T & U - are planned to be reconfigured into the 3 class HD configuration by the end of S18. The 3 remaining 4 class aircraft will then undergo there cabin refit during W18. BA do not plan to reconfigure the cabins of the RR powered 777’s operating from LGW before S19.

[BAladdy]

Originally Posted by CabinCrewe

.... and the CE middle table being removed- whatever next

The first A321 fitted with the densified 218 seat cabin was returned to service this morning. The aircraft (G-MEDN) had previously been fitted with the 2 class midhaul configuration and under went its cabin refit up in PIK.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by BAladdy

The cabin layout diagram posted shows 2 good size wardrobes on either side of the cabin aft of DR2. BA decided to have them removed. This freed up space for the two extra seats to be fitted on either side.

Ah, right -thanks for that. So as per the RHS in my artists impression below?

Interesting window configuration (assuming that hasn't also changed since the preview).

The drawings suggest that the window immediately aft of L2/R2 has been reinstated, but in common with (I think) every -200 the next frame (adjacent to the added double) is windowless.

The published plan also seems to imply window changes towards the rear of the first M cabin, for reasons that aren't immediately obvious.

Doubtless we'll soon see a recent exterior photo of G-VIIX which will confirm that, or not, as the case may be.

[nigel osborne]

Originally Posted by BAladdy

Wonder no more!!... I can confirm that the seat pitch is 38” throughout the whole WTP cabin. The diagram posted was originally released 15 months ago. It was used to give investors a idea of how the cabins would look once the cabin it had been reconfigured.

The cabin layout diagram posted shows 2 good size wardrobes on either side of the cabin aft of DR2. BA decided to have them removed. This freed up space for the two extra seats to be fitted on either side.

When the 777 cabin reconfiguration was announced BA said that plannned to fit a high density cabin to some of its 3 class 777’s and LGW and they planned to fit 25 777’s with a 10 across Y cabin. BA plan to totally refurbish the remaining 3 4 class aircraft it has based at LGW however there are no plans to make turn then 3 class aircraft. The aircaft will be fitted a 10 across economy cabin which so it they will return to service in a new 14F/48J/40W/136Y configuration. The 4 class aircraft are not planned to have there

G-VIIO/R/P/T & U - are planned to be reconfigured into the 3 class HD configuration by the end of S18. The 3 remaining 4 class aircraft will then undergo there cabin refit during W18. BA do not plan to reconfigure the cabins of the RR powered 777’s operating from LGW before S19.

Getting to the stage when why would you want to fly with BA when they now have a similar product to low cost carriers.

All except their prices are not low cost ?

[BAladdy]

Originally Posted by nigel osborne

Getting to the stage when why would you want to fly with BA when they now have a similar product to low cost carriers.

All except their prices are not low cost ?

BA to launch no-frills fares for transatlantic flights | Daily Mail Online

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/c...-haul-flights/

[crewmeal]

Virgin are jumping on the band wagon as well

Virgin Atlantic to launch hand baggage only fares | Daily Mail Online

[Cazza_fly]

Getting to the stage when why would you want to fly with BA when they now have a similar product to low cost carriers.

They give their 777 cabins a seriously much needed upgrade with brand new seats, new IFE systems, new lighting and add wifi yet they get slated? Yes they have added an extra seat per row in economy, but this is only on par with the likes of Emirates and the majority of other 777 operators these days, yet i don't hear many people slating them. I suppose its all part of perception from the media and it all coming at a time where BA have elsewhere been looking at reducing services? As for their World Traveller economy cabin, I think together with these new interiors they actually have a very strong and solid product... for now.

[Heathrow Harry]

Other airlines offer better service - if BA go head to head AND offer slave seating they'll get killed.......................

[Skipness One Echo]

Other airlines offer better service - if BA go head to head AND offer slave seating they'll get killed.......................

Slave seating in Y as in a 10 abreast B777 like Qatar Airways? Or Air New Zealand or American, United or Cathay? One assumes those slaves are slightly better fed, but the seats are the same.

[Downwind_Left]

Think BA are getting a lot of undue flak here for basically matching most of their competitors, a long time after most other airlines have gone 10-abreast on the 777. BA have clung on to 9 abreast on their 777s more than most.

People have bemoaned the BA 777 fleet for a long time... firstly it was the non-AVOD 777s from the mid-late 1990s (G-ZZZ... and early G-VII...) aircraft that had very small TV screens on a video-loop system. So they were refurbished around 2011/12 with the same seats and IFE as the 777-300ER. They're now addressing the next weakest link in the 777 fleet, which is the first generation AVOD systems... but at the same time the market has moved on... 10 abreast on the 777 is now the norm, and the competition in their core markets is changing and becoming more aggressive (Norwegian, Middle East carriers)

So yes they are increasing the seating density, but the IFE offering is much improved, as well as the rollout of high speed Wi-Fi. I think on balance a 10 abreast 777 is far less miserable than a 9 abreast 787, that everyone bar JAL/ANA operates. BA's new seat is identical to the one KLM use, and I'm sure many other airlines.

I'm not defending all BA's recent decisions here, but on this one I can't criticise too much. Adapt or die. Many major airlines have fallen by the wayside ignoring the competition, carrying on the same as always, and hoping the market would go back to how it used to be.

As a quick straw-poll, the following major airlines have or are installing 10 abreast seating on their long-haul 777s (ignoring domestic/regional aircraft)

Aeroflot
Air Canada
Air France
Air New Zealand
Alitalia
All Nippon
American
Austrian
BA
Cathay Pacific
China Airlines
China Eastern
Emirates
Etihad
EVA Air
Jet Airways
KLM
LATAM
Philippine Airlines
Qatar Airways
Saudia
Swiss
United

I did a long-haul flight on a 787 in economy recently (not BA)
It was a work trip, they only book Y, premium full, and upgrade to business was £3000 one way (no thanks!) It was the most miserable flight of my life, narrow seat and tight legroom. Saved only by decent, but not great, IFE, Wi-Fi and a bit of alcohol.

10-abreast 777? Move on... nothing to see here. There are far worse things for an economy traveller to worry about.

[crewmeal]

Think BA are getting a lot of undue flak here for basically matching most of their competitors, a long time after most other airlines have gone 10-abreast on the 777. BA have clung on to 9 abreast on their 777s more than most.

BA is getting flack because of the recent downturn in service. They have ancient 777's that have seen better days with dirty interiors, poor service standards, the downgrading of meals, 320's that are becoming sardine cans. It seems the seating arrangement is the straw that broke the camel's back. It seems to me that those complaining on here remember BA for what it used to be with high standards all round. Those that haven't flown BA will probably know no different.

[Wycombe]

They have ancient 777's

....along with "ancient" (but no doubt well looked-after) 744's and 763's. It's what BA (and the likes of LH and KL) do, and no doubt the accountants like it.

for what it used to be with high standards all round

Like it or not (and I don't either) those days are gone. BA need to compete, or would you rather that they re-trenched/specialised to a point where the average Joe can no longer (unless perhaps he has a generous employer...and there aren't many of them left either) afford to fly with the flag carrier?

[Skipness One Echo]

With the Cathedral hangar due to be demolished soon to make way for taxiway alterations to facilitate T2C, what are BA planning on replacing the lost maintenance capacity with?

Some of the ancient 763s are in a bad way in terms of cleanliness and furnishing as cost cutting is now in BA’s DNA. It’s a Walsh/Cruz mantra, and works well so long as you know what’s excessive cost and what is BAU. They made a conscious decision to accept a huge drop in standards on some fleets to save money because they were retiring the fleet. Lufthansa still fly their first A320 from 1989 which is kept to the same high standards as their new NEOs in terms of cleaning. BA have cut the fat and now have managers trying to impress by cutting the basics. That all comes from Mr Walsh and his Accenture cloned puppet CEO.

[Heathrow Harry]

Everyone likes to think their National Airline tries to represent the best of their country. BA also have a long history of advertising their high standards (BOAC,"the World's Favourite.." etc etc)

We just have to face it that any legacy airline with large pension liabilities and First World salary bills is going to have to change unless it gets a vast Govt subsidy

Regretfully no-one is happy paying their own money for a quality product - the LoCo success shows that clearly.

I've decided to stop moaning about legacy airlines and just ignore their advertising and accept it's LoCo forever now (unless my employer pays of course)

[Andy_S]

Originally Posted by Cazza_fly

As for their World Traveller economy cabin, I think together with these new interiors they actually have a very strong and solid product... for now.

Have they got a toilet in the new WT+ cabin?

And have they improved the catering?

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo

Some of the ancient 763s are in a bad way in terms of cleanliness and furnishing as cost cutting is now in BA’s DNA. It’s a Walsh/Cruz mantra, and works well so long as you know what’s excessive cost and what is BAU.

That's nothing new. I remember attending meetings 40-odd years ago to discuss the tatty state (both external and internal) of the fleet.

In those days (maybe still) BA had a wonderfully-named "Aircraft Appearance Manager", though sadly nobody thought to equip the unfortunate individual with the required magic wand.

[HZ123]

David Reid; Never truer words spoken I also remember a/c meetings forever in respect of dirty interiors. It has always been so, I remember a long time ago when deep cleaning of longhaul a/c was performed at route stations as it was so cheap! Sadly even that is not considered anymore due to cost. I fear it can only get worse and it will be best to travel in a set of overalls!

[BHX5DME]

Any truth in BA A321LRs from other UK airports ?