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Old 7th Aug 2020, 19:22
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Originally Posted by PAXboy View Post
BA, like many long established corporates has a 'culture' and each new generation of staff who join find themselves unable to break through that culture. I have seen this in many enterprises, not just airlines.

It is all part of the human desire to keep things the way that they were and difficulty in seeing what they might become. Which is how old companies die and new ones are born. In the (I think) late 1970s, British Rail experimented with ways to reduce cost of their multiple diesel units on small routes. They took a body from a coach and put it on bogies (obviously more complicated than that!) but it didn't work. Many years later, it came out that some of the senior BR men had thought, "It didn't look like a train" Sums it up.
Itís not long left service with Northern Rail I believe!
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Old 7th Aug 2020, 22:55
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Originally Posted by TOM100 View Post
Sad news today about BA CC - I canít however help but think members should not have put their blind trust in the intransigent and frankly incompetent BASSA reps. A policy of not talking and saying no to everything for months (until it was too late) was, like previously, never going to end well. Whilst BALPA may not have got a great deal, the engagement and constructive talks at least prevented a far worse outcome. Sad.
Agreed. I wonder how many crew have cancelled their direct debit to the unions.
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 09:35
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BA’s cabin crew reps have never done their members any favours, being far more interested in the politics than the staff. Previous management (and I’m going back 20 odd years) pandered to the unions and BASSA can’t get its head round the fact that those days are over. These are terrible times for the industry and if the union reps can’t recognise that they should be put the door.
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 11:33
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It's very sad. History repeats itself and a lot of good people have got caught in the middle of it all.

Can't help but notice how in the 2009/2010 BA CC dispute Len McCluskey was happy to take a prominent role towards the end as he was running his campaign for the leadership of Unite, yet in the past week he has given major interviews to The Observer, BBC etc all about Labour Party politics.

It's also no coincidence that after the 2009/2010 dispute, BA's approach to industrial relations negotiations has hardened considerably.
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 11:47
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Originally Posted by TOM100 View Post
Sad news today about BA CC - I canít however help but think members should not have put their blind trust in the intransigent and frankly incompetent BASSA reps. A policy of not talking and saying no to everything for months (until it was too late) was, like previously, never going to end well. Whilst BALPA may not have got a great deal, the engagement and constructive talks at least prevented a far worse outcome. Sad.
Unite represent far more than just CC.
160 Eng staff have taken VR gods knows how many more are being made CR this weekend!
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 12:27
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It probably would have been cheaper to tarmac the line anad make it single track with passing places to be used only by buses and coaches. No expensive track maintenance, no expensive signalling, simple, cheap one-man operation by bus crews and at key points and termini the bus could leave the "permanent way" and toodle off into the road network - but the rail people would have seen another Beeching.
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 12:38
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Unite represent far more than just CC.
160 Eng staff have taken VR gods knows how many more are being made CR this weekend!
Turin you are right of course and my sympathies go out to them too. I only feel able to comment on CC as I know the detail and have first hand experience of the BASSA reps - crew have been badly let down by them (again) imo and they have never taken a pragmatic approach. The days of BASSA holding the senior management of BA to ransom are long gone and they simply havenít adapted their approach to take account of this. Bully tactics of BASSA just donít work anymore and they willl need to take a long hard look in the mirror at how many of these job losses can be attributed to them. Iím not saying BAís approach has been right (far from it) but a strategy of no engagement, refusing to accept the reality and advising members not to talk was crazy. As I said, BALPA have hardly got their desired outcome but it could have been a lot worse ! BASSA/Unite now saying give us the pilots deal is a bit late and a bit ironic - had they engaged (like BALPA) maybe they would have got something a bit more like that hard fought deal.
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 17:23
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In typical Unite fashion I heard the Assistant General Secretary on the radio just banging on about the pilots having got a better deal.

Well maybe the ‘Ostrich’ style of negotiating has brought about the usual result for the cabin crew.

I also read that BASSA reps were still advising members not to take the VR offer as late as Thursday meaning if they listened to that advice on Friday they were likely redundant.

What a joke they really are.







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Old 9th Aug 2020, 00:41
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More Embraer 190s heading to the U.K.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 01:35
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Originally Posted by Buster the Bear View Post
More Embraer 190s heading to the U.K.
Do you know when?
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 03:50
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Info on a well known UK & Ireland Fleet listings site.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 06:57
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Originally Posted by Curious Pax View Post
Itís not long left service with Northern Rail I believe!
Believe it or not, the venerable 142 Pacer is still in service on a few select routes form Manchesters Piccadilly and Victoria stations. I drive them for a living and they are by far most drivers favourite train. Anyway, back to BA.....
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 13:57
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Compulsory redundancy within Engineering now on hold until the results of a TU /EJSS meeting on 12th August. Possibly a ballot of members but no idea whether that is to accept the latest company deal or take unilateral industrial action.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 19:26
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Do we have any more news on Gatwick? Are crew being told that short haul is gone?
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 21:06
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Originally Posted by Buster the Bear View Post
More Embraer 190s heading to the U.K.
6 second hand E190s to replace the 6 E170s leaving the fleet.
Planned before well before anyone had heard of Coronavirus. 4 E170s have already left the operational fleet. Entry into the fleet presumably not until they are actually required now.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 22:43
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Originally Posted by BAeuro View Post
Do we have any more news on Gatwick? Are crew being told that short haul is gone?
A friend of a friend is an overseas station manager for BA who is of the understanding Gatwick is permanently canned for the long term, so not sure if anyone knows any different...
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 00:55
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BA to Pull out of LGW S/H
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 02:58
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Originally Posted by JSCL View Post
A friend of a friend is an overseas station manager for BA who is of the understanding Gatwick is permanently canned for the long term, so not sure if anyone knows any different...
But BA are still operating select Long Haul flights from LGW. They also plan to launch a new route from LGW to Montego Bay in October. I think the real threat is for short haul.

Thanks for the link TURIN I had seen the article but wasnít sure how much it could be trusted. Thereís been no official statement from BA yet and I havenít heard anything from staff. I guess the winter timetable shakeup will give us more information.
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 06:07
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Originally Posted by vctenderness View Post

I also read that BASSA reps were still advising members not to take the VR offer as late as Thursday meaning if they listened to that advice on Friday they were likely redundant.

What a joke they really are.
Regardless of any BASSA advice many legacy cabin crew had already opted to take what they were calling "involuntary VR" by Monday of last week...


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Old 10th Aug 2020, 06:11
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Interesting that the author has seemingly come up with the idea that Aer Lingus could fill the void at LGW. This was tried in the past and pulled and I didnít really have Aer Lingus down as a LCC. As previous posters have alluded to, the GO branding was the best and most fitting but thatís gone. I also still think there may be some meat to the bones of an idea that City Flyer could fill some void at LGW operating sun and leisure city routes with LCY significantly reduced to core business traffic - and as such a reduced portfolio.
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