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Old 18th Jun 2019, 16:21
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How many tiger tokens did they pay per air frame. Bet they got them for near enough cost so that Boeing can use BA/IAG as lever for future orders
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 17:14
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This is doubly smart from IAG. First, as has been pointed out, it's only a Letter of Intent, so it's not binding on IAG. Second, remember the last time Boeing's order book took a dive, after Sept 11, when Ryanair swooped in and did the deal of the century which formed the basis for its future expansion? By giving Boeing a good news story, Willie has also greatly reduced the incentive for Boeing to cut another sweet deal with Ryanair this time.
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 18:10
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Smart move, general public have short memory, Boeing will remember BA for years to come.
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 20:41
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I don't know about short memory but i don't think anyone will forget the MAX crashes..But what i don't understand is since IAG operate only Airbus how will they combine the 737s..I mean Vueling has a very big fleet and BA already operates A320-family only..How is that driving costs down by introducing new fleet-type,flying along the A320s,new type-rating,crew trainings costs,maintenance costs etc?
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 20:47
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Originally Posted by mariofly12
I don't know about short memory but i don't think anyone will forget the MAX crashes..But what i don't understand is since IAG operate only Airbus how will they combine the 737s..I mean Vueling has a very big fleet and BA already operates A320-family only..How is that driving costs down by introducing new fleet-type,flying along the A320s,new type-rating,crew trainings costs,maintenance costs etc?
They probably have absolutely no intention of operating them. What they do have now is a very large lever to use on airbus for future orders as well as a benchmark price point.
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 20:49
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Originally Posted by mariofly12
I don't know about short memory but i don't think anyone will forget the MAX crashes..But what i don't understand is since IAG operate only Airbus how will they combine the 737s..I mean Vueling has a very big fleet and BA already operates A320-family only..How is that driving costs down by introducing new fleet-type,flying along the A320s,new type-rating,crew trainings costs,maintenance costs etc?
Both fleets large enough to eliminate any potential cost savings would be my guess. Airlines like IAG don't make huge decisions involving investments this size lightly. I would bet they know what they're doing...
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 20:51
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Originally Posted by TartinTon
They probably have absolutely no intention of operating them. What they do have now is a very large lever to use on airbus for future orders as well as a benchmark price point.
Short sighted IMO. Heathrow's news today? Lead times on NEO's? BA operated 737s before - no reason they wont again.
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 21:18
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News press release clearly points the 737 Max order intent for 200 jets are intended for distribution across the group airlines to include Vueling, Level and BA Gatwick.

LHR presumably will remain an all Airbus 319/320/321 fleet serving short haul ops considering delivery on orders of NEOís coming online.

LGW on the other hand previously operated 737 fleet SH and currently operates 772ís LH, so perhaps a strategic move to switch LGW to a all Boeing fleet!

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Old 18th Jun 2019, 22:30
  #349 (permalink)  
 
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This is a really interesting order for BA and the whole of IAG. As others have said I also believe that Gatwick could become a All Boeing Base. It will be interesting to see how many go where within IAG. I suspect that this will allow for the rest of A319s to retired as they are due to leave the fleet by 2024. 2024 was the date I saw somewhere. As LGW is mix A319/320 May be some A320s will then transfer to LHR to Replace last of A319s.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 00:42
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I must admit I too am flabbergasted by this order! What can the MAX do so much better than the NEO that it outweighs the extra expense of maintenance/training etc? They'd have been better off ordering more A350s and A330NEOs to replace the 747/777/787 fleet, not that the latter needs replacing but surely the argument for commonality that was so prevalent just five years or so ago is still as strong now?! I hate to mention the "B" word but all I can think of is BA wanting to deprive Europe of some lucrative business due to Brexit?
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 04:58
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What shocks me most about this order is the language in the press release. Expressing 'every confidence' in Boeing, who have been shown to have lied, cheated and elided the facts throughout the Max's development. How can *anyone* have confidence after such revelation?

Just shows what a chummy club exists at the top-tier of industry, and what complete indifference they have for accountability and decency.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 07:11
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Originally Posted by Cautious Optimist
but surely the argument for commonality that was so prevalent just five years or so ago is still as strong now?
The "argument for commonality" is largely a myth - if you buy enough of a type, it doesn't matter what else you have in your fleet, you are already enjoying massive economies of scale.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 07:21
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BA as I have said have got a very good deal. Ryanair are an excellent training ground from which IAG can recruit crew offsetting the cost of a dual fleet. Boeing will HAVE to come up with a fix for 737MAX and I have every confidence they will do so; it is very closely matched with the NEO over some sectors in terms of operating costs otherwise TUI and Ryanair would have bought Airbus.

Good move from IAG which will keep eggs in both baskets continuing to extract good deals from both airframers.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 07:26
  #354 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by El Bunto
What shocks me most about this order is the language in the press release. Expressing 'every confidence' in Boeing, who have been shown to have lied, cheated and elided the facts throughout the Max's development. How can *anyone* have confidence after such revelation?

Just shows what a chummy club exists at the top-tier of industry, and what complete indifference they have for accountability and decency.
For goodness sake grow up. IAG are a business, and they almost certainly played the situation with the 737 MAX to great commercial advantage.

Last edited by Andy_S; 19th Jun 2019 at 07:38.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 08:49
  #355 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cautious Optimist
I hate to mention the "B" word but all I can think of is BA wanting to deprive Europe of some lucrative business due to Brexit?
As IAG is registered as a Spanish company and the larger part of the order would probably be for Vueling and Level what has Brexit got to do with it?
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 10:58
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Originally Posted by Groundloop
what has Brexit got to do with it?
I suspect IAG are not that fussed about Brexit, and will have borne no impact on this MAX order.
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Old 21st Jun 2019, 11:55
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We live in interesting times,

BA Staff to Strike this Summer?
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Old 21st Jun 2019, 18:24
  #358 (permalink)  
 
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Donít think it will as itís been operated into Jersey with Smart Wings to Tenerife this winter with a full load non stop until obviously it had to change to a 737 800
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Old 8th Jul 2019, 06:55
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Fined £ 183 million for data breach last year
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48905907

British Airways says it is facing a record fine of £183m for last year's breach of its security systems. The airline, owned by IAG, says it was "surprised and disappointed" by the penalty from the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO). At the time, BA said hackers had carried out a "sophisticated, malicious criminal attack" on its website.

The ICO said it was the biggest penalty it had ever handed out and the first to be made public under new rules The General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) came into force last year and was the biggest shake-up to data privacy in 20 years.

The penalty imposed on BA is the first one to be made public since those rules were introduced and amounts to 1.5% of its worldwide turnover in 2017, less than the possible maximum of 4%. Until now, the biggest penalty was £500,000, imposed on Facebook for its role in the Cambridge Analytica data scandal. That was the maximum allowed under the old data protection rules that applied before GDPR.

BA has 28 days to appeal. Willie Walsh, chief executive of IAG, said British Airways would be making representations to the ICO. "We intend to take all appropriate steps to defend the airline's position vigorously, including making any necessary appeals," he said. BA has previously said approximately 380,000 transactions were affected, but the stolen data did not include travel or passport details.

The information included names, email addresses, credit card information such as credit card numbers, expiration dates and the three-digit CVV code found on the back of credit cards, although BA has said it did not store CVV numbers. The incident was first disclosed on 6 September 2018.

Alex Cruz, British Airways' chairman and chief executive, said: "We are surprised and disappointed in this initial finding from the ICO. "British Airways responded quickly to a criminal act to steal customers' data. We have found no evidence of fraud/fraudulent activity on accounts linked to the theft.

"We apologise to our customers for any inconvenience this event caused."
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Old 8th Jul 2019, 08:47
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I have to disagree with Alex Cruz stolen data has not led to fraud/fraudulent activity. Recently, I had a flurry of fraudulent transactions on a UK credit card that had been used to book flights via the BA website at the time of the data breach. None of my other UK cards or my Spanish, none of which I had used with BA, have been subject to similar fraudulent activity. From this, I can only draw the conclusion that the BA data breach was the source of the data used.
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