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Waterford-2

Old 10th May 2019, 13:38
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Shamrogue View Post
Given the relative population of the Southeast.

Some time ago, there was an interesting submission in Wisconsin as follows :
https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/p...ir/lse-eis.pdf

I suspect Edinburgh would be a flight of fancy. Getting 50 people all from the South East, all wanting to go to Edinburgh on a particular day.........and do so over a longer period. I don't see this. High population density routes with economic ties to the Southeast. So London is the most obvious. And after that maybe a Birmingham and Manchester. There is perhaps an arguement for a Ryanair or Aer Lingus jet service to Malaga or Faro during the summer season.

Freight - now that is an interesting one. How does freight work? Is there enough coming out of or heading into the Southeast?

Cheers.
Shamrogue
Well I guess , ( although aircraft are bad for the environment) but IF you could land a large say 767 freighter on this new runway , and fly it to say Leige.

That is a heck of a lot of lorries , not on the ferry , and ultimately clogging up the relatively rural roads on either side of the ferry route .
I'm not familiar with the southeast , but I thought Waterford was connected to Dublin , by the Motorway network.

Perhaps there might be Scope for Internal flights , perhaps seasonal , to Kerry and Knock( one off charters for the various religious events ) , for passengers ( tourists) arriving from South Wales , or even Donegal , ( the ' Wild Atlantic Way'' ) is stunning but from Waterford the rest of the nation is a very long drive .

As people have said a link to London on Ryanair seems likely , and ' Bucket and Spade routes', it's beyond unlikely they'd secure a Dublin link , so would Amsterdam be a possible , to give accsess to a ' Hub' .

As any London link won't be to the Big two London Airports .
More likely Southend .
Unless they did Manchester .

Are there any big business interests in the Southeast , that would make use of an Amsterdam link ?.

Apologies for the questions , but I'm not familiar with the geography of the far Southeast , and what if any industry is around there , to generate ' bums on seats '.
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Old 10th May 2019, 16:41
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EGPO View Post
More likely Southend .
.
History has shown if you want to kill off a London route you move it to Southend.

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Old 10th May 2019, 23:18
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Grrr

Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
History has shown if you want to kill off a London route you move it to Southend.
Indeed. Suckling, BA, Celtic Airways and finally Aer Arran and VLM found the route to be very lucrative from Luton. Stobart thought differently!
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Old 11th May 2019, 07:25
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Well I guess , ( although aircraft are bad for the environment) but IF you could land a large say 767 freighter on this new runway , and fly it to say Leige.

That is a heck of a lot of lorries , not on the ferry , and ultimately clogging up the relatively rural roads on either side of the ferry route .
Is it? What's the 'lorry equivalen't of a 767? What's the price difference of transporting a lorry load by air rather than by truck?
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Old 14th May 2019, 00:28
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Well I guess , ( although aircraft are bad for the environment) but IF you could land a large say 767 freighter on this new runway , and fly it to say Leige.
.
Just curious as to what you will put on board?
Perhaps there might be Scope for Internal flights , perhaps seasonal , to Kerry and Knock( one off charters for the various religious events ) ,
No demand.
Cork/Shannon/Knock to Dublin internal flight stopped years ago.
Kerry/Donegal to Dublin have to be subsidised.

There are elections on the 24th so all the stops are been pulled out.

There population simply is not there to support the airport.


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Old 14th May 2019, 14:12
  #26 (permalink)  
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The location to the south of Waterford isn't ideal either if it aims to be an airport for the South-East. From Carlow or Gorey, you'd be in Dublin as quickly. From Cahir, you'd be in Cork as quickly. If the same mistake hadn't been made in Cork with the airport located north/east of the city, it would have an even smaller catchment again.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 03:14
  #27 (permalink)  
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Well, the runway extension has been granted, 12 million euros has been put to one side for the extension which will bring the runway to 2250*45m.



From looking at the investors it includes Conor McCarthy (Leadmore Investment Company) who own Dublin AeroSpace, it looks like Waterford will be a new aircraft maintenance site.

Sorry I can't post links here yet but google will bring you to those articles.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 23:55
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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who?

Originally Posted by NLC1072 View Post
Well, the runway extension has been granted, 12 million euros has been put to one side for the extension which will bring the runway to 2250*45m.



From looking at the investors it includes Conor McCarthy (Leadmore Investment Company) who own Dublin AeroSpace, it looks like Waterford will be a new aircraft maintenance site.

Sorry I can't post links here yet but google will bring you to those articles.

With 7831ft x145 that's big enough for the likes of Ryanair, and Aerlingus to operate .
Question is,
Is there demand for large aircraft down there ?.
I had wondered about ' incoming ' EU Tourist flights, one of the English south coast Airports sees a few inbound German flights .

So could this be a ' Tourist Airport'?.
And is the Terminal getting upgraded to match such a good sized Runway ? .
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 08:23
  #29 (permalink)  
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Anything over 2000m or so is enough to reach the Canaries in a 737 or an A320.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 14:00
  #30 (permalink)  
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Of all airports in Ireland, Kerry is best placed to prosper from routes sustained through inbound tourism. And yet it has only a couple of seasonal routes to Frankfurt-Hahn and Berlin. I'd caution against relying on inbound tourism to sustain the airport.

More realistic is summer seasonal sun routes, maybe a Canaries flight in the Winter and the prospect of attracting an airline like Ryanair for a London route once the runway can handle their aircraft.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 14:39
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EGPO View Post
With 7831ft x145 that's big enough for the likes of Ryanair, and Aerlingus to operate .
Question is,
Is there demand for large aircraft down there ?.
I had wondered about ' incoming ' EU Tourist flights, one of the English south coast Airports sees a few inbound German flights .

So could this be a ' Tourist Airport'?.
And is the Terminal getting upgraded to match such a good sized Runway ? .
EGPO,
The level of demand will not get the airport to significant enough demand to deliver a viable level of pax. An airport needs in excess of 1million pax a year, given an appropriate level of revenue from car parks and retail too. Any airports with less than this make up the shortfall from government subsidies or loose money.

​​​​​​Shane Ross said on the radio yesterday that the airport repay the government in 4 years ... but how I earth will they do this?

The airport will probably attract Europe's biggest low cost airline, and with a, fair wind I think they could get a 2 daily London route, Luton/Stansted, maybe twice weekly to MAN and BHX and a handful of seasonal sun routes, which would probably be AGP, FAO, ACE, ALC of the like. With said airline in place the likelihood of other airlines coming in are low.

They certainly could draw traffic from the the area between Waterford and Dublin, those who don't want M50 and a congested airport experience, but certainly not enough to deliver the necessary numbers...

EI-BUD.
​​​
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 11:46
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EI-BUD View Post
​​​​​​Shane Ross said on the radio yesterday that the airport repay the government in 4 years ... but how I earth will they do this?
​​​
My understanding is that the promised government funding is a grant rather than a loan. This idea that it will be "repaid" rests on a house of cards of (to say the least) shaky assumptions:
  • Scheduled passenger flights will start, and the airport will operate at no cost to the state (i.e. the airport will become virtually the only one of its size in the world (and certainly the only one with Ryanair as a main carrier) to be able to break even)
  • These passenger flights will bring new tourists to the Southeast most of whom would not have travelled otherwise, i.e. they wouldn't have used other airports such as Dublin or Cork (in other words, this will be mostly incremental demand rather than just displacement)
  • These new (incremental) tourists will spend money in the Southeast on accommodation and food and car hire, which in turn will generate VAT, and perhaps create a few extra jobs in the hospitality sector in the region which will generate PRSI receipts for the State
  • The passenger flights will of course also carry Irish people to the UK/Spain etc to spend money there rather than at home (meaning a loss of VAT/PRSI revenue in Ireland) but for the numbers to work we have to magically assume that most of these Irish people would have travelled anyway (via Cork/Dublin). In other words, the inbound demand (= extra VAT revenue) will be additional, but the outbound demand (= loss of VAT revenue) will only be displacement
If you are prepared to assume all of that, you may be able to make a case that there is a net annual gain of €1.25m to the State in terms of additional VAT and PRSI receipts (giving a 4-year "repayment") - but if you are prepared to assume all that, I can forward you the e-mail addresses of some Nigerian princes who would like to make you rich.

If there is a case for improved flight connectivity in the Southeast, it would surely have been better to put some funding towards subsidising a PSO flight to London with ATRs or Q400s or Embraers, to at least prove the market for a couple of years using the existing infrastructure, rather than putting the money into a runway extension which will simply leave the airport in need of continuing annual subsidy to stay open?
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 12:07
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
My understanding is that the promised government funding is a grant rather than a loan. This idea that it will be "repaid" rests on a house of cards of (to say the least) shaky assumptions:
  • Scheduled passenger flights will start, and the airport will operate at no cost to the state (i.e. the airport will become virtually the only one of its size in the world (and certainly the only one with Ryanair as a main carrier) to be able to break even)
  • These passenger flights will bring new tourists to the Southeast most of whom would not have travelled otherwise, i.e. they wouldn't have used other airports such as Dublin or Cork (in other words, this will be mostly incremental demand rather than just displacement)
  • These new (incremental) tourists will spend money in the Southeast on accommodation and food and car hire, which in turn will generate VAT, and perhaps create a few extra jobs in the hospitality sector in the region which will generate PRSI receipts for the State
  • The passenger flights will of course also carry Irish people to the UK/Spain etc to spend money there rather than at home (meaning a loss of VAT/PRSI revenue in Ireland) but for the numbers to work we have to magically assume that most of these Irish people would have travelled anyway (via Cork/Dublin). In other words, the inbound demand (= extra VAT revenue) will be additional, but the outbound demand (= loss of VAT revenue) will only be displacement
If you are prepared to assume all of that, you may be able to make a case that there is a net annual gain of 1.25m to the State in terms of additional VAT and PRSI receipts (giving a 4-year "repayment") - but if you are prepared to assume all that, I can forward you the e-mail addresses of some Nigerian princes who would like to make you rich.

If there is a case for improved flight connectivity in the Southeast, it would surely have been better to put some funding towards subsidising a PSO flight to London with ATRs or Q400s or Embraers, to at least prove the market for a couple of years using the existing infrastructure, rather than putting the money into a runway extension which will simply leave the airport in need of continuing annual subsidy to stay open?
Pork Barrel funding at its finest in an unviable airport.
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