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Isle of Man-2

Old 13th Oct 2020, 21:53
  #601 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ISLE OF MAN
Age: 71
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by flyerguy View Post
Neither a threat nor speculation. The virus is going to be part of our everyday life for the foreseeable future. Economy’s in locked down areas such as the Island are going to start becoming weaker without connections to the outside world.

To say that that post was a threat when airlines are doing the same around the world is just ludicrous.

Airlines selling routes that keep getting put back are simply going to remove them all together so customers are not purchasing tickets and then having to refund back and forth
I do not disagree. I was merely trying to point out that the known clear majority views of the local residents heavily outweigh the financial interests of any airline on any given route from or to the Isle of Man.

For anyone to suggest that there is a connectivity and consequent economic problem for the island in the absence of Easyjet is entirely wrong. Easyjet (whom I like a lot and use frequently) are not essential to the island being the first discount airline ever to serve it and having done so only in recent years. The island is currently being served well by Loganair flights to London City six days per week (this route is believed to be transferring soon to Heathrow) London obviously being the key route for outbound and inbound business pax, Liverpool (double daily x 6 days) and Manchester six days per week) and a fast ferry to Liverpool centre from March to early November and traditional ferries double daily to Heysham or Birkenhead. The ferries also normally serve Belfast and Dublin seasonally.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 21:58
  #602 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ISLE OF MAN
Age: 71
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Originally Posted by flyerguy View Post
If residents are away and returning and then isolating for 14 days why isn’t this being rolled out to immediate friends and family. Just because people are resistants of the UK doesn’t mean their ‘superspreaders’. IATA figures show that the rate of transmission is extremely low. Add in the 14 days and they’d be minimal risk of transition into the general public.
And where would they isolate once they get here? In Covid-free households of the so-called immediate friends and family? BTW, what are 'immediate friends'? If you check the Island's wonderful record of community infections and deaths - you will understand why almost no-one here wants to put that at risk. The IOM Government is not going to change the border restrictions noticeably if at all for a considerable time and apart from a small minority the vast majority of our people support this fully.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 22:05
  #603 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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The IOM Government have elections next year so this will be a factor in any decisions they make. Furthermore, they won't open up whilst the situation in the north west of England is getting worse. I have a vague recollection that in one press briefing in the early days they stated the figure in their mind for uk infection rates. It's on gefthemongoose somewhere. The UK is way off that figure
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 22:10
  #604 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NW England
Posts: 148
I will just say these two things: -

Firstly, if easyJet or anybody else pull a route until further notice, there’s no guarantee it will return as soon as it’s practical.

Secondly, the Isle of Man can’t keep the borders shut forever. Well they could, but what’s the economic cost of practically no tourism and no TT for more than one year? Guernsey folk travelling on the airbridge probably only brings a fraction of the tourism money the island would ordinarily expect to generate in normal times. I see the government recently announced an extension of support to businesses in the tourism sector until next March, which probably gives a clue as to how long borders are likely to remain closed.

I will conclude by simply saying the Manx Government needs to consider how to manage COVID besides keeping borders closed given this is sadly not going away anytime soon.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 22:19
  #605 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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The government said there are 8 ventilators. ICU is similar size. The covid ward still exists but is moth balled at present. They have virtually no wriggle room. Also any impact upon staff sickness has a knock on effect. The hospital is still catching up from the last lock down
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Old 14th Oct 2020, 06:47
  #606 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ISLE OF MAN
Age: 71
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Originally Posted by 116d View Post
I will just say these two things: -

Firstly, if easyJet or anybody else pull a route until further notice, there’s no guarantee it will return as soon as it’s practical.

Secondly, the Isle of Man can’t keep the borders shut forever. Well they could, but what’s the economic cost of practically no tourism and no TT for more than one year? Guernsey folk travelling on the airbridge probably only brings a fraction of the tourism money the island would ordinarily expect to generate in normal times. I see the government recently announced an extension of support to businesses in the tourism sector until next March, which probably gives a clue as to how long borders are likely to remain closed.

I will conclude by simply saying the Manx Government needs to consider how to manage COVID besides keeping borders closed given this is sadly not going away anytime soon.
1. Subject to any specific restrictions on them under any agreement with the local authorities at each end airlines generally have the right to pull or reduce frequencies on a route or, subject to slots availability etc, to increase frequencies on a route
2. There will be no TT in 2021. Remember that, in this forum, you read this here first!

I fully understand the wishes (and obviously the financial plight) of airlines like easyjet and all those in aviation generally for restoring still suspended routes but in the case of the Isle of Man that is now only the Aer Lingus Regional single daily Dublin flight and the Easyjet daily Gatwick and Liverpool flights and the very low frequency Bristol, Belfast and Luton flights. Until there is a vaccine or things in the UK change dramatically for the better the demand is simply not there for any of those. And all of those routes have (admittedly much less convenient) alternatives by flights via Liverpool or Manchester or London or by ferries + trains ('boat trains') or ferries with a car.

I do not wish to upset anyone and I know that there are very strong feelings both in the island and in the UK for and against the restrictions - as they have varied and as they currently are - but the bottom-line is that stable consistent travel is not generally going to return to any significant extent until UK infection rates reduce greatly and that surely means a vaccine and / or people generally behaving in a manner compliant with the rules. In the UK huge nos are not so compliant and behave as if laws, rules and regulations are only applicable to others and not to themselves - hence the problem. And that is the sole reason why Liverpool & surrounds are now in level 3 restrictions with more to follow......................

When the IOM Government and our people read the UK statistics and about the women who organised a party for 100+ people, countless illegal raves and gatherings in many parts of the UK and flagrant disregard for social distancing, wearing of masks etc etc etc it is very much easier to understand the Isle of Man's restrictive decisions. And our people do understand.

There have been no large demonstrations or petitions against our Government's handling of air routes and related matters. And believe me we are a very strongly opinionated population!

And then there are the hugely important points made in the Post 605 above by lfc64 about our own Health Service capacity which sums up another key reason why the overwhelming bulk of our people support our Government's handling of this crisis. Indeed, our young Health Minister has just been awarded an MBE.

To advance your wishes you need to address your thoughts to the UK people. If it is too much for a very significant proportion of the UK population to act in a safe manner compliant with the laws, rules and regulations of their country then the rest of us can only now hope that an effective vaccine becomes available to all of us and as soon as possible.

Happy Wednesday to all!
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Old 14th Oct 2020, 08:35
  #607 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: IOM
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Originally Posted by The96er View Post
Have you pesonally asked the opinion of all the IoM residents or are you just assuming that you speak on behalf of all the residents ?
The latter, clearly.
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Old 14th Oct 2020, 08:52
  #608 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
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Originally Posted by milleriom View Post
You clearly have not even thought of asking the Isle of Man Government who actually do know the consensus views on this topic of the 85,000 or so residents.
That is a huge assumption in itself. The IOM Government have done nothing apart from closing the borders. Full stop. That is not dealing with the virus, that is running from it. There are parts of the UK that have infection rates comparable to those in the IOM. I fully expect that if such an attitude continues within the government, businesses will continue to leave for the simple reason that businesses need to conduct business on a daily basis, both on and off the IOM. That in itself is not a compelling scenario for any airline. By the way, the current population is about 83,000 and falling.
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Old 14th Oct 2020, 09:51
  #609 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Originally Posted by M-JCS View Post
That is a huge assumption in itself. The IOM Government have done nothing apart from closing the borders. Full stop. That is not dealing with the virus, that is running from it. There are parts of the UK that have infection rates comparable to those in the IOM. I fully expect that if such an attitude continues within the government, businesses will continue to leave for the simple reason that businesses need to conduct business on a daily basis, both on and off the IOM. That in itself is not a compelling scenario for any airline. By the way, the current population is about 83,000 and falling.
estate agents are reporting a lot of interest in property purchases from people off island, and houses selling within days. the speculation is that people are moving to the island to live normally
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Old 14th Oct 2020, 14:06
  #610 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the house
Posts: 161
'the known clear majority views of the local residents'

'our people'

Just who the h..l do you think you are speaking on behalf of the IOM. Keep your head buried in your bunker, fella. Some of us are ready to get back into the world. If you're 71 and worried stay where you are but don't think you speak for 'our people'.
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Old 14th Oct 2020, 14:55
  #611 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ISLE OF MAN
Age: 71
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Originally Posted by Tinwald View Post
'the known clear majority views of the local residents'

'our people'

Just who the h..l do you think you are speaking on behalf of the IOM. Keep your head buried in your bunker, fella. Some of us are ready to get back into the world. If you're 71 and worried stay where you are but don't think you speak for 'our people'.
I do not think that at all. It is our Government (which as mentioned above faces a General Election next year) that speaks on behalf of the people of the Isle of Man (and like it or not, yes that most certainly is ''our people'') and to date they have had some strict controls on the borders. It is patently absurd to suggest that they have done so in a manner that is inconsistent with the wishes of the majority of the ('our') people. If you do not like that then you can of course vote against the current incumbent(s) in your constituency next year should he/she/they stand again!

This is a sterile argument as the IOM Government's views on the matter since March remain consistently and abundantly clear and I support and praise that whether you do so or not.

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Old 14th Oct 2020, 14:59
  #612 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: IOM
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Originally Posted by milleriom View Post
I do not think that at all. It is our Government (which as mentioned above faces a General Election next year) that speaks on behalf of the people of the Isle of Man (and like it or not, yes that most certainly is ''our people'') and to date they have had some strict controls on the borders. It is patently absurd to suggest that they have done so in a manner that is inconsistent with the wishes of the majority of the ('our') people. If you do not like that then you can of course vote against the current incumbent(s) in your constituency next year should he/she/they stand again!

This is a sterile argument as the IOM Government's views on the matter since March remain consistently and abundantly clear and I support and praise that whether you do so or not.
But your view does not represent the majority, even though you think it does.

It is difficult not to support what is currently going on. But the border situation is at breaking point. One which - from what I've seen - the population are getting incredibly tired of.

The election doesn't matter. HQ, LS and some of the big names we see today won't be standing next year. Nobody elected these people on the basis of doing what they've done. They were elected on other promises, all of which are irrelevant in respect of the current pandemic.
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Old 14th Oct 2020, 16:32
  #613 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ISLE OF MAN
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Originally Posted by JSCL View Post
But your view does not represent the majority, even though you think it does.

It is difficult not to support what is currently going on. But the border situation is at breaking point. One which - from what I've seen - the population are getting incredibly tired of.

The election doesn't matter. HQ, LS and some of the big names we see today won't be standing next year. Nobody elected these people on the basis of doing what they've done. They were elected on other promises, all of which are irrelevant in respect of the current pandemic.
Dear JSCL, of the hundreds of people I see or otherwise hear, no-one has said that ''the border situation is at breaking point'' so I am sure that the situation as at now is emphatically not ''One which - from what I've seen - the population are getting incredibly tired of''! One of us is wrong about the local majority view on the IOMG's travel restrictions and we shall just have to wait and see whether any firm clear evidence emerges in time to come as to which of us was mistaken about that at this time!

In the meantime I wish you, yours and everyone else very good health and much happiness.

Best wishes

milleriom
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Old 14th Oct 2020, 22:39
  #614 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by milleriom View Post
Dear JSCL, of the hundreds of people I see or otherwise hear, no-one has said that ''the border situation is at breaking point'' so I am sure that the situation as at now is emphatically not ''One which - from what I've seen - the population are getting incredibly tired of''! One of us is wrong about the local majority view on the IOMG's travel restrictions and we shall just have to wait and see whether any firm clear evidence emerges in time to come as to which of us was mistaken about that at this time!

In the meantime I wish you, yours and everyone else very good health and much happiness.

Best wishes

milleriom
I have no idea who you are, or why you have suddenly appeared on this forum, making wild, sweeping, unsubstantiated statements, and purporting to speak on behalf of the majority of the Isle of Man population.

Let me give you a reality check. You don't!

Yes, the IOMG have done some things well, but it is most definitely not a universal view that they have done everything well and it is clear that they do not have a credible exit strategy, ready to be implemented when the time is right (which it obviously isn't now).

I concur with JCSL that there are several elements of the borders policy which are clearly unsustainable, and many people are frustrated by where we are, and the lack of clarity about where we are heading.

Anyway, as this is an aviation forum, can I suggest you take your views to Manx Forums (www.manxforums.com) where you will definitely find people who are prepared to indulge in the kind of debate you seem to be looking for!
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Old 15th Oct 2020, 11:32
  #615 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the house
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Well said Tonyq. Mr Miller should pop into the Albie and see how 'our people' react with his holier than thou attitude. My betting he's well retired with a nice fat pension happy to miss out on the cruises for a wee while.
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Old 15th Oct 2020, 13:43
  #616 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NW England
Posts: 148
Originally Posted by milleriom View Post
To advance your wishes you need to address your thoughts to the UK people.
Nope. My point about the Manx government needing to consider how they will deal with the virus beyond closing borders is aimed at the Manx government and still stands. Whilst I don't disagree that the behaviour of some people in the UK is appalling when it comes to the virus, this isn't the thread for it and, by the way, the decision to close the borders wasn't made by the UK and nor is it the UK that's keeping them closed.

I see Jersey introduced a testing system for all arrivals whereby you either get tested on arrival or you get a test done prior to travel. Is there a valid reason why a similar scheme can't be introduced in the Isle of Man?

As for no TT next year, that's a matter for the Manx government and what economic support they will have to stump up for losing that for the second consecutive year along with lack of tourism. The hole this will leave in the government coffers will need to be filled somehow. How do Manx folk feel about having to pay more tax?

I agree with Tonyq that although now isn't the time to ease things, there's no clarity about what's next and what the timescales are. For example, when Mr Quayle said over a month ago that he would only consider easing border restrictions when cases in the UK was at 1 in every 5,000 people (or something like that), it was new information to me and looking back at news articles, it wasn't made clear at the time when the border levels were announced. From afar, it sounds as though strategy is being made up as they go along. I know it was announced that they may consider easing things to allow immediate family to return over Christmas, but I'm not confident it will come to that and I suspect it was made partly to appease those calling for restrictions to be eased and being mindful Christmas is coming.
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Old 15th Oct 2020, 13:49
  #617 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Posts: 87
It's crazy that you people are even having that discussion.

People from practically anywhere else on the planet would give their right arm to be able to live in (relative) normality.

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Old 15th Oct 2020, 14:31
  #618 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Originally Posted by Jenny Tails View Post
It's crazy that you people are even having that discussion.

People from practically anywhere else on the planet would give their right arm to be able to live in (relative) normality.
As much as I would love to take a trip abroad, I agree. It can wait.
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Old 15th Oct 2020, 17:58
  #619 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Originally Posted by lfc84 View Post
As much as I would love to take a trip abroad, I agree. It can wait.
That is certainly a sentiment shared with others that I have spoken to who live on your island.

I'd be very careful of your current Covid-free status. It certainly sounds like there are people (JCSL et al) that would sell you out for their share of silver coins.

There is no 'long term planning' for any country until the virus subsides globally and that is a few years off.
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Old 15th Oct 2020, 18:05
  #620 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
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Originally Posted by Jenny Tails View Post
That is certainly a sentiment shared with others that I have spoken to who live on your island.

I'd be very careful of your current Covid-free status. It certainly sounds like there are people (JCSL et al) that would sell you out for their share of silver coins.

There is no 'long term planning' for any country until the virus subsides globally and that is a few years off.
I’ll be frank, I have travelled off the Island only a matter of weeks ago and travelled to four other countries (including the UK), then completed my self isolation period. It was very interesting to see different approaches to the virus and more than ever, makes me think the IOM should align itself less with the UK and how the situation goes there, compared to what I’ve seen elsewhere. Everywhere other than the UK actually had the feeling of normality, bar the obvious limitations regarding mask usage in certain scenarios and settings. Not like that which I have become accustomed to, but not far from it.

I think outside of the older population, most folk are starting to see that whilst this current situation is a benefit to living in this great Island, it has also shown how small the place can feel. It’s not a matter of selling out, but a more thought out approach to facilitating certain types of travel with a more rigorous testing regime. You cannot think only about the here and now, but must think ahead and beyond the virus.
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