Isle of Man-2

[lfc84]

If only the island could support a similar BA service to that which operates to Jersey

[flyerguy]

Originally Posted by lfc84

If only the island could support a similar BA service to that which operates to Jersey

This would be ideal, you’d have to look at LHR though as easyJet have the LGW market, and with LHR comes the opportunity for connections which might make it more viable! With BA starting NQY from LHR after Flybe’s pullout maybe we can sit and hope for a direct LHR flight!

[Manx]

Originally Posted by flyerguy

This would be ideal, you’d have to look at LHR though as easyJet have the LGW market, and with LHR comes the opportunity for connections which might make it more viable! With BA starting NQY from LHR after Flybe’s pullout maybe we can sit and hope for a direct LHR flight!

We don't have the weather to attract the tourists like Jersey nor the same levels of wealth amongst residents.

[Tinwald]

Originally Posted by Manx

We don't have the weather to attract the tourists like Jersey nor the same levels of wealth amongst residents.

Fella, the money is here; they're just too tight to spend it on the rock

[Tonyq]

A more realistic aspiration would be for the airport, and the e-gamers who fund LCY, would be to pitch for a ‘real’ BA service to LCY on the E-Jet.

A much more attractive product and experience, a significant uplift in available seats, which would enhance the overall London market pricing mix, and provide a more regular and balanced service, which would compensate for the weird ‘reverse seasonality’ (fewer seats in Summer) offered by EZY.

[BAladdy]

LM cancelled 11 sectors to or from LCY In the 9 months between the beginning of May last year and the end of last month. That was a huge improvement on when T3 operated the route.
However passenger numbers on the route have steadily been declining over the last couple of years. They were down 8.8% this year on 2018. The average load factor was less than 65% across the year. The current arrangement with LM works for BACF for now, If this was to end then I think you might have a chance of seeing BACF operate a E70, however I very much doubt they would base the aircraft at IOM. Instead they would fly a morning and evening flight on weekdays with the aircraft being based at LCY.

[virginblue]

Would that work? Hardly any BACF aircraft do not overnight at LCY. While the issue with the time difference between the UK and the continent is an explanation for that, making morning services starting at the UK end somewhat impractica, it is mostly down to the lack of demand for early morning flights from LCY to most destinations. Is the IOM market that different? If not, it might be more sensible to have the aircraft overnighting at IOM instead of shuttling a lot of hot air from LCY to IOM in the mornings. The other question for me is what the future holds for the Embraer 170 at BACF. Can't we expect that BACF will have a standardized Embraer 190 fleet sooner than later? (which would not rule out bringing in another operator with an Embraer 170 just like Eastern before)

[willy wombat]

But without wishing to state the obvious, if you start the day with an IOM night stop you are pretty well committing to three IOMLCYIOM rotations a day - IOMLCYIOMLCY in the morning and again in the late afternoon/evening OR not having a morning LCYIOM OR finding some other mid day IOM???IOM rotation OR parking the aircraft in the IOM between the morning and evening LCY rotations. Would any of these make economic sense? Could well explain why the route has always been sub’d out.

[virginblue]

You are right of course if the frequency was to go down to 2x daily. The question for me is if a LCY-based aircraft would result in a business case for keeping the route or if it would simply mean the end of the route if it can no longer be operated with a smaller, IOM-based 50 seater. The flight times are probably not that big an issue, given the slightly higher speed of the jet on a short route like that. So we we would probably look at an arrival into LCY at 09:30ish instead of 08:25 right now. Not ideal, but probably still acceptable. But would there be any demand for a 06:30ish departure (instead of 09:00) from LCY to IOM?

[flyerguy]

For the next few days your looking at around 100 pax per day going IOM-LCY on 3 flights per day, LCY-IOM around 115.

if we saw Cityflyer metal on the route then it’s more suited you 2x daily E170.

We always see on these flights connections aswell to LGW/LHR, so they would have to time flights to suit both the connections and the A to B pax.

[flyerguy]

easyJet seem to have released a load of new routes today, IOM not on there. Surely they should be looking at MAN/NCL/GLA soon even at a couple of frequency’s a week.

if Flybe go under I’d prefer to see EZY take on the MAN route rather than Loganair given there recent performance.

[JSCL]

Easy won't be given permission to operate MAN, yet. They have been trying to get permission for years but the IOM won't let them to protect the higher frequency Flybe services. Not like it isnt on their radar, it has been for a few years.

[lfc84]

Originally Posted by JSCL

Easy won't be given permission to operate MAN, yet. They have been trying to get permission for years but the IOM won't let them to protect the higher frequency Flybe services. Not like it isnt on their radar, it has been for a few years.

I heard the same

[IOMX]

Be careful what you wish for as the minute Easy Jet get on to the Manchester route its frequency will likely drop to two a day. The island needs frequent well timed routes you only have to look at Gatwick to see what happens!

Regarding London City the service since the introduction of the ATR has been poor although some of it is down to poor operations at LCY quite a few flights have been delayed out of there. I think Loganair are good operators but they do need to sort out the problems fast before people start to lose confidence. This is a vital route between the island and London and it would be a complete disaster if it were lost. The Embraer 170 would be great I don't understand why BA could not operate two rotations a day then reposition the plane to Belfast , Glasgow or Edinburgh to do a couple of rotations from those airports to LCY before returning to an evening rotation for the Isle of Man.

[desk_bound]

Originally Posted by JSCL

Easy won't be given permission to operate MAN, yet. They have been trying to get permission for years but the IOM won't let them to protect the higher frequency Flybe services. Not like it isnt on their radar, it has been for a few years.

I could be wrong but I thought the IOM was “open sky’s” so anyone can fly there if they think they can make money

[JSCL]

Correct, IOM has had an open skies policy since the 90s.

However, if I think I can make money operating flights from Gatwick to Heathrow, it doesnt mean that I can.

You still need the airport to grant you the slots to operate said routes and as the airport is Government owned, it still has that degree of control.

[Jenny Tails]

Originally Posted by JSCL

Correct, IOM has had an open skies policy since the 90s.

However, if I think I can make money operating flights from Gatwick to Heathrow, it doesnt mean that I can.

You still need the airport to grant you the slots to operate said routes and as the airport is Government owned, it still has that degree of control.

EGNS is not a coordinated airfield. Open Skies in the Isle of Man is that in the truest sense. Everyone and Anyone with a valid AOC and other documentation can set up shop on routes from there.

[BAladdy]

Originally Posted by IOMX

Regarding London City the service since the introduction of the ATR has been poor although some of it is down to poor operations at LCY quite a few flights have been delayed out of there. I think Loganair are good operators but they do need to sort out the problems fast before people start to lose confidence. This is a vital route between the island and London and it would be a complete disaster if it were lost. The Embraer 170 would be great I don't understand why BA could not operate two rotations a day then reposition the plane to Belfast , Glasgow or Edinburgh to do a couple of rotations from those airports to LCY before returning to an evening rotation for the Isle of Man.

It is a shame that LM can’t use one of there ER3’s on the route. I know that G-SAJR was previously owned by a airline called Jetmagic, who operated the aircraft between ORK and LCY. Using such a jet would result in a loss of capacity however the 3 x Daily service would be maintained. Flight times would also be faster and the journey more comfortable than the ATR.

[BACsuperVC10]

Easyjet have done LPL-IOM for some years but not at frequency that Flybe does. So if Flybe goes will Easyjet increase their LPL-IOM frequency to fill in the gaps, or Loganair or Eastern jump in ?

[RVF750]

Nobody is stupid enough to compete head to head with EZ.

Flybe have the Patient Transfer contract. That's the only reason they fly to LPL still.