Virgin Atlantic
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Of cause you have fair point , however is it not even more remiss to decline an offer of help when you made contributions into the kitty so to speak - Especially based on Domestic political dogma .
Now to the moderator i will shut up
Now to the moderator i will shut up
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Virgin are showing daily flights on flightradar24 to China and the US . They are using their A350's with the main deck packed with essential supply's for the NHS, as well as full cargo holds
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Another airline to get stuck into
Virgin Atlantic needs state support to survive: Branson
Virgin Atlantic needs state support to survive: Branson
The British billionaire, who owns 51% of Virgin Atlantic, says the airline is seeking a commercial loan backed by the UK government, and points to similar financing awarded to budget carrier EasyJet. It wouldn’t be free money and the airline would pay it back (as EasyJet will do for the £600 million [$748 million] loan the government recently gave them),” writes Branson.
“The reality of this unprecedented crisis is that many airlines around the world need government support and many have already received it. Without it there won’t be any competition left and hundreds of thousands more jobs will be lost, along with critical connectivity and huge economic value,” he adds.
“The reality of this unprecedented crisis is that many airlines around the world need government support and many have already received it. Without it there won’t be any competition left and hundreds of thousands more jobs will be lost, along with critical connectivity and huge economic value,” he adds.
Branson points out in his blog that Virgin Group has “committed a quarter of a billion dollars to help our businesses and protect jobs”, and says it will “continue to invest” what it can. In an apparent rebuttal of criticism on social media levelled at wealthy individuals requesting taxpayer-funded bailouts, the Virgin founder adds: “I’ve seen lots of comments about my net worth – but that is calculated on the value of Virgin businesses around the world before this crisis, not sitting as cash in a bank account ready to withdraw.”
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Virgin Atlantic seems caught in a Catch 22 situation. It will never achieve long-term profitability unless it has, with the aid of partners, a network to win corporate traffic from BA. Though, to survive in the short-term it will have to shrink.
Looking at some of the reactions to SRB's request for state support, it's significant how public sentiment towards him has changed. 30 years ago he could no wrong in the eyes of much of the public and the newspapers.
Looking at some of the reactions to SRB's request for state support, it's significant how public sentiment towards him has changed. 30 years ago he could no wrong in the eyes of much of the public and the newspapers.
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It will be interesting to see how this pans out. For the the sake of the staff involved I hope they pull through.
If Virgin Atlantic goes how many routes would lose competition? Off the top of my head I am thinking a few Caribbean routes but there may be others.
Without that competition fares are likely to increase and with Norwegian also in a difficult situation I wonder if any other airlines would step in.
The chance of new airline start ups seems unlikely bearing in mind the lack of government support for the sector.
How many any of those currently commenting negatively on bailouts will then be doing the same about increasing fares?
If Virgin Atlantic goes how many routes would lose competition? Off the top of my head I am thinking a few Caribbean routes but there may be others.
Without that competition fares are likely to increase and with Norwegian also in a difficult situation I wonder if any other airlines would step in.
The chance of new airline start ups seems unlikely bearing in mind the lack of government support for the sector.
How many any of those currently commenting negatively on bailouts will then be doing the same about increasing fares?
Heathrow - Cape Town, Johannesburg, Las Vegas, Lagos and Seattle would also become a BA monopoly in the event of Virgin disappearing. I suspect Delta might be interested in London-Seattle - I'm assuming Norwegian will stop selling tickets for this route pretty soon. I'm wondering also if Arik Air (again) or Air Peace might be interested in London
I'm not sure there is a particularly good reason to worry about BA having a monopoly to Carribbean islands and places like Las Vegas - yes, I know it is also a convention centre. It's not the job of a Govt to subsidise citizens spending their money on holiday in another country far away. Complaints by Brits about how expensive holiday in Barbados have become can and should be ignored
I'm not sure there is a particularly good reason to worry about BA having a monopoly to Carribbean islands and places like Las Vegas - yes, I know it is also a convention centre. It's not the job of a Govt to subsidise citizens spending their money on holiday in another country far away. Complaints by Brits about how expensive holiday in Barbados have become can and should be ignored
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 20th Apr 2020 at 14:39.
Heathrow - Cape Town, Johannesburg, Lagos and Seattle would also become a BA monopoly in the event of Virgin disappearing. I suspect Delta might be interested in London-Seattle - I'm assuming Norwegian will stop selling tickets for this route pretty soon
I'm not sure there is a particularly good reason to worry about BA having a monopoly to Carribbean islands and places like Las Vegas - yes, I know it is also a convention centre. It's not the job of a Govt to subsidise citizens spending their money on holiday in another country far away. Complaints by Brits about how expensive holiday in Barbados have become can and should be ignored
I'm not sure there is a particularly good reason to worry about BA having a monopoly to Carribbean islands and places like Las Vegas - yes, I know it is also a convention centre. It's not the job of a Govt to subsidise citizens spending their money on holiday in another country far away. Complaints by Brits about how expensive holiday in Barbados have become can and should be ignored
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Additionally any increase in fares resulting in a reduction in flights may be seen as a positive in terms of reducing the environmental footprint of aviation.
The improvements in air quality seen in many of the worlds major cities will be focused on by the green lobby and any reduction in greenhouse emissions that can be achieved will need to be grasped.
The improvements in air quality seen in many of the worlds major cities will be focused on by the green lobby and any reduction in greenhouse emissions that can be achieved will need to be grasped.
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It will be interesting to see how this pans out. For the the sake of the staff involved I hope they pull through.
If Virgin Atlantic goes how many routes would lose competition? Off the top of my head I am thinking a few Caribbean routes but there may be others.
Without that competition fares are likely to increase and with Norwegian also in a difficult situation I wonder if any other airlines would step in.
The chance of new airline start ups seems unlikely bearing in mind the lack of government support for the sector.
How many any of those currently commenting negatively on bailouts will then be doing the same about increasing fares?
If Virgin Atlantic goes how many routes would lose competition? Off the top of my head I am thinking a few Caribbean routes but there may be others.
Without that competition fares are likely to increase and with Norwegian also in a difficult situation I wonder if any other airlines would step in.
The chance of new airline start ups seems unlikely bearing in mind the lack of government support for the sector.
How many any of those currently commenting negatively on bailouts will then be doing the same about increasing fares?
If VS did go under or drastically cut back its operations, it would be bad news for MAN. I certainly can't see BA or anybody else stepping into the breach and fear it would either be a long time for these routes to return or never. I know a lot of the discussion around competition is focused at the London end, but let's remember the expansion VS have been carrying out in the north.
It's also worth noting that MAN has lost 3 airlines with large presences in the last 2 1/2 years (Monarch, Thomas Cook and Flybe), so it's little wonder they lobbied the government lately as they don't want a fourth. The current crisis is threatening to undo all the growth of the network from MAN in general in recent years.
Banks won't lend large piles of cash to VS, but they will lend to SRB personally. If SRB borrows the cash in his own name. he is personally liable for the debt and the banks have the legal right to come after him through the courts to ensure the loan is repaid
Both SRB and Delta know that Virgin Atlantic has very little chance of being able to generate enough profits over the next 10 years to be able to repay the money that VS needs to survive
Delta have just had a huge bailout from the US Govt - it woud look *really* bad in the USA if they were seen to be spending some of this US tax money on supporting a British airline
If you owned a business that generates £1m profit per year, but right now needs an investment of £50m (and in future years will still only have profits of max £2m per year if the economy is doing well), would you invest £50m of your personal cash ? Or would you walk away and put the company into voluntary liquidation (knowing that this will absolve you of any penalty around reckless trading as a company director) ?
SRB might find it emotionally sad to walk away from VS but he knows that financially it's the right thing for him to do
Both SRB and Delta know that Virgin Atlantic has very little chance of being able to generate enough profits over the next 10 years to be able to repay the money that VS needs to survive
Delta have just had a huge bailout from the US Govt - it woud look *really* bad in the USA if they were seen to be spending some of this US tax money on supporting a British airline
If you owned a business that generates £1m profit per year, but right now needs an investment of £50m (and in future years will still only have profits of max £2m per year if the economy is doing well), would you invest £50m of your personal cash ? Or would you walk away and put the company into voluntary liquidation (knowing that this will absolve you of any penalty around reckless trading as a company director) ?
SRB might find it emotionally sad to walk away from VS but he knows that financially it's the right thing for him to do
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 20th Apr 2020 at 17:05.
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Everyone seems happy to slate SRB yet not Stelios. The fat pig has just got a £60 million dividend. The board could donate that £174m back into the airline, and since he's the largest shareholder surely he should put some wealth back into the airline. He's worth $1.5 billion. Can donate $100,000,000? Surely. Or does it not suit the Daily Mail/The Scum/Daily Express *insert other crappy tabloids* agenda and propaganda. And therefore the government can give them a loan for £600,000,000 for nothing. For the record i'm not a Virgin employee, i'm just someone who has seen total injustice at not only how Virgin/Easy have been treated, but also hypocrisy at its best.
Everyone seems happy for them to go yet doesn't realise the wider implications for our economy.