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Virgin Atlantic

Old 28th Mar 2020, 11:15
  #241 (permalink)  
 
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I feel very sorry for the staff at the coalface - I do like to use VS when I can, but they are one of the few airlines that still have the "fluff" from yesteryear. Unfortunately the likes of easyJet, Ryanair, Wizz, Jet2 et al have watered down the product so much, Virgin's cost base is indeed just too high these days. They like Monarch didn't really know who they were catering for - business or leisure, both or neither.

The fact is that they've only made a small profit in 3 years out of the last 9 reported years (2010-2018) at a pre tax loss of £369m in that period.
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 12:33
  #242 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 787Heaven
Shareholders and directors have amassed huge wealth to the detriment of their hardworking employees. They treat their employees with contempt and then have the cheek to ask the govt for help?? Greed has gone too far!
A lot of the "wealth" often talked about for these types of people are actually in shares or share options, which are probably worth b*gger all at the moment, especially if they are shares in airlines.
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 14:41
  #243 (permalink)  
 
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I do like to use VS when I can, but they are one of the few airlines that still have the "fluff" from yesteryear. Unfortunately the likes of easyJet, Ryanair, Wizz, Jet2 et al have watered down the product so much, Virgin's cost base is indeed just too high these days.
If you have flown VS for any number of years (my first flight with them was 25 years ago), you will know that a lot of the "fluff" has either gone or been reduced over the years.

They are a long-haul only, full service airline, with an all widebody fleet. Completely different operating models and markets to the short-haul low cost carriers you quote.

If you're going to make comparisons at least make them meaningful!

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Old 28th Mar 2020, 15:12
  #244 (permalink)  
 
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Bit sad aboutt he train operations- we are unlike to be better than Europe ( on past performance and as has been pointed out we are at iny little country -the London-Birmingham 100 miles gets you scarcely out the Paris region when looked at in comparison -they need the speed we dont we need capacity as someone wisely pointed out.
As to bail outs if they do become a serious issue , ie if crisis really prolonged preserve BA and EZ , shame about VS , FR can just sink without a trace ,

We have to consider that in many industries and enterprises. preserve the status qua as of two weeks ago keep all industries under government control and then bleed capacity back into all market and do not allow pointless competition
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 15:18
  #245 (permalink)  
 
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It's difficult to believe that all the cash has gone in just a few weeks, especially as a lot of the cost, starting with fuel, is entirely dependent on how much flying you do. I thought the CAA required some minimum amount of cash resilience far more than this.

It is reasonable for the government to support a series of mainstream flight connections from the UK through and after all this. It is less understandable for them to support second or third carriers on the same routes, who just provide a competitive alternative in normal times.

Last edited by WHBM; 28th Mar 2020 at 15:38.
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 15:45
  #246 (permalink)  
 
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Prior to Virgin (or Laker) turning up on long haul routes, BA acted as a monopoly and charged very high fares. Virgin to a significant extent have kept BA honest and simply by existing have done far more than a Govt regulator could ever do to prevent BA abusing the market

Those who work for BA may of course see things differently...
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 16:19
  #247 (permalink)  
 
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we need capacity as someone wisely pointed out.
People getting used to working from home might turn that on its head. In fact, that was predicted 10 years ago. What, in another 10 years?
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 18:09
  #248 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
Prior to Virgin (or Laker) turning up on long haul routes, BA acted as a monopoly and charged very high fares. Virgin to a significant extent have kept BA honest and simply by existing have done far more than a Govt regulator could ever do to prevent BA abusing the market

Those who work for BA may of course see things differently...
its 40 years since Laker went bust. Virgin have been flying now for approx 35 years. A lot has changed in the aviation industry since then. Competition is everywhere you look keeping prices competitive. 30 years ago non of the big ME3 were born. TK was a small mainly inter European/Asia carrier. Transatlantic traffic is now more competitive than ever PA and TW have gone by the wayside replaced by 3 giants DL AA and UA.

The industry will continue to change and consolidate, which will mean that the financially weak or poorly managed companies will fail. Companies with stronger balance sheets will prevail and grow. If this means that the likes of VS and Norwegian fail so be it. Capacity will eventually be backfilled with financially stronger carriers.
As the stronger leaner carriers grow they will require extra workforce hopefully taking the displaced workers from the bust carriers.

Yes we we are in unprecedented times at the moment with Covid 19 and the closure of nearly all the worlds air routes. However this was not the cause of the airlines struggling to keep afloat, it may well be the trigger though. VS has not made money for a number of years even in the good times of growth and plenty of disposable income. Norwegian on the other hand has been poorly managed, grew far too quickly and is now unable to service its debt. It is only a matter of time in my opinion before the rug is pulled from underneath.
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 19:53
  #249 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Groundloop
A lot of the "wealth" often talked about for these types of people are actually in shares or share options, which are probably worth b*gger all at the moment, especially if they are shares in airlines.
actually I think you will find it’s all hoarded in offshore bank accounts.
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 20:05
  #250 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
Prior to Virgin (or Laker) turning up on long haul routes, BA acted as a monopoly and charged very high fares. Virgin to a significant extent have kept BA honest and simply by existing have done far more than a Govt regulator could ever do to prevent BA abusing the market

Those who work for BA may of course see things differently...
BA in its history have never been for competition - there is a very good documentary on YouTube called “Inside British Airways” made in 1990, under the stewardship of Marshall and King. It is a stark reminder of how minimal the choice was on some route at the time (and to an extent still is).

The rhetoric coming from Cruz and Walsh in the last few years have been along similar lines - and why not; it is their prerogative to maximise income for their business and its shareholders.

They are anti R3 at LHR because it would jeopardise their position as the top dog in London, not for its environmental arguments.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 08:14
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Originally Posted by 787Heaven
actually I think you will find it’s all hoarded in offshore bank accounts.
And where do you think that money is invested?
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 08:35
  #252 (permalink)  
 
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Given Bransons previous record - in a maze of interlocking companies..........
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 12:40
  #253 (permalink)  
 
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All the money is in Necter Island
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 02:05
  #254 (permalink)  
 
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The rhetoric coming from Cruz and Walsh in the last few years have been along similar lines - and why not; it is their prerogative to maximise income for their business and its shareholders.

They are anti R3 at LHR because it would jeopardise their position as the top dog in London, not for its environmental arguments.
A third rwy doesn't seriously threaten BA's position as top dog at LHR as (1) the new slots will be distributed amongst many carriers, and (2) BA will be entitled to a proportion of the new slots.

Does the value of BA's LHR slot portfolio count as an asset on the balance sheet? If so, it would be a better reason to oppose a third rwy, as the secondary slot market ends once the third rwy is operational, consequently the slot portfolio becomes worthless in cash terms.

Just asking the question.
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 07:32
  #255 (permalink)  
 
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I think the 3rd runway is now the deadest of dead ducks Frank - LHR have no income, the airlines are b****** and the country will be wallowing in debt and low growth for years
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 08:40
  #256 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
and the country will be wallowing in debt and low growth for years
Indeed you are right, but as well, the entire world economy will be in the same boat.
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 11:12
  #257 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by paully
Indeed you are right, but as well, the entire world economy will be in the same boat.
And it will probably be a boat...…………….
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 15:10
  #258 (permalink)  
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Save that the cruise lines are up the creek without fuel oil ...

The ramifications of this virus are, currently beyond calculation. Any number and any company you think of? It will be worse.
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 16:36
  #259 (permalink)  
 
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VS operation has been cut to just 3 routes up until 19APR:

Hong Kong - 787-9 will operate on alternate days
Los Angeles - 1 x daily A350 will replace 787-9 from 01APR
New York - A350 will operate 1 x daily

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...30gmt-30mar20/
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 17:02
  #260 (permalink)  
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The ‘scheduled’ operation....
A lot of regular and ad hoc cargo & charter flights throughout April & May at least.
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