Carlisle-2

[SWBKCB]

No mention of a reduced schedule?

Date revealed for launch of Carlisle airport commercial flights

[daz211]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

No mention of a reduced schedule?

Date revealed for launch of Carlisle airport commercial flights

full flight info available on Carlisle Airport website home page / definitely a reduction in service.
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[BAladdy]

​​​​​​Looks like a very limiting operation as you can see from the schedule below.

Belfast City

LM633 CAX 10:50 BHD 11:40 SF3 1
LM633 CAX 11:40 BHD 12:30 SF3 x123

LM634 BHD 12:10 CAX 13:20 SF3 1
LM634 BHD 13:00 CAX 13:50 SF3 x123

Dublin

LM635 CAX 07:10 DUB 08:25 SF3 56
LM635 CAX 08:00 DUB 09:15 SF3 47
LM635 CAX 13:40 DUB 14:55 SF3 1

LM636 DUB 08:55 CAX 10:10 SF3 56
LM636 DUB 09:45 CAX 11:00 SF3 47
LM636 DUB 15:25 CAX 16:40 SF3 1

London Southend

LM601 CAX 07:00 SEN 08:25 SF3 1
LM607 CAX 14:20 SEN 15:45 SF3 457

LM602 SEN 08:55 CAX 10:20 SF3 1
LM608 SEN 16:15 CAX 17:40 SF3 457

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/1...d/?ref=mr&lp=2

[davidjohnson6]

Is there any reason to believe that Carlisle airport really will be ready this time ? I know they have had an extra year to prepare, but do they really have everything in place now ?

[NorthSouth]

I wonder what they're doing with the aircraft on Tuesdays and Wednesdays?!

[SWBKCB]

Originally Posted by davidjohnson6

Is there any reason to believe that Carlisle airport really will be ready this time ? I know they have had an extra year to prepare, but do they really have everything in place now ?

Can only go on published sources, but issues with the lack of trained ATC has been put forward as the reason for the delay. Recent statements have indicated that this is in hand - I would imagine that after last time LM have some firm commitments in place.

[goldeneye]

Based on the seating chart on LM’s website. I think the aircraft may well be the Do328 and not the Saab 340.

[daz211]

I would be very surprised if they announced flights, if they weren’t 110% guaranteed this time.

[BAladdy]

Originally Posted by goldeneye

Based on the seating chart on LM’s website. I think the aircraft may well be the Do328 and not the Saab 340.

Seat chart displayed has 34 seats so definitely a SF3. The D328’s are fitted with 31 or 32 seats.

[Expressflight]

Originally Posted by BAladdy

​​​Looks like a very limiting operation as you can see from the schedule below.
Belfast City
LM633 CAX 10:50 BHD 11:40 SF3 1
LM633 CAX 11:40 BHD 12:30 SF3 x123
LM634 BHD 12:10 CAX 13:20 SF3 1
LM634 BHD 13:00 CAX 13:50 SF3 x123
Dublin
LM635 CAX 07:10 DUB 08:25 SF3 56
LM635 CAX 08:00 DUB 09:15 SF3 47
LM635 CAX 13:40 DUB 14:55 SF3 1
LM636 DUB 08:55 CAX 10:10 SF3 56
LM636 DUB 09:45 CAX 11:00 SF3 47
LM636 DUB 15:25 CAX 16:40 SF3 1
London Southend
LM601 CAX 07:00 SEN 08:25 SF3 1
LM607 CAX 14:20 SEN 15:45 SF3 457
LM602 SEN 08:55 CAX 10:20 SF3 1
LM608 SEN 16:15 CAX 17:40 SF3 457
https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/1...d/?ref=mr&lp=2

But probably a more realistic and sensible operation to begin with. The previously aborted launch will have revealed something about the market appetite for double-daily flights between CAX and SEN and perhaps caused a rethink. There was previously also the suggestion that it was driven by an element within the Stobart Group that is no longer there and a harder commercial view may now prevail. Many on here had been of the view that the operation planned originally had marginal commercial potential and I think this one, with it's emphasis more on leisure and VFR passengers rather than daily commuting business travellers, looks better from that viewpoint.

[SWBKCB]

However, it was the business connections that the project was sold on locally (and planning permission obtained). Stobart have over promised and under delivered, as well as being late and treating airfield residents shoddily.

Will leisure and VFR make the routes pay?

[highwideandugly]

A recipe for..well we all know..unless Stobarts are massively subsidising...this will give them the result They originally wanted a superb logistics base.

To repeat.. Carlisle ...never did and never will work...just no passengers..

[daz211]

Originally Posted by highwideandugly

A recipe for..well we all know..unless Stobarts are massively subsidising...this will give them the result They originally wanted a superb logistics base.

To repeat.. Carlisle ...never did and never will work...just no passengers..

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just remember, the same was about Southend a few years back.

[SWBKCB]

just remember, the same was about Southend a few years back.

The comparison is hardly valid although I imagine Stobart will be subsidising CAX like they are subsidising SEN (its in the accounts).

SEN did work at one stage - it was one of the busiest airports in Britain, and CAX isn't on the edge of one of the largest aviation markets in the world, where all the competing airports are constrained in some way. On the contrary, it's in the middle of nowhere, with the surrounding airports below capacity.

Stobart need to start making more than they are spending at a some stage.

[VickersVicount]

I personally think CAX will work in a limited capacity. Whether it produces enough profits noone on here will ever know.

[DC3 Dave]

Originally Posted by highwideandugly

A recipe for..well we all know..unless Stobarts are massively subsidising...this will give them the result They originally wanted a superb logistics base.

To repeat.. Carlisle ...never did and never will work...just no passengers..

​​​​​Loganair were selling tickets for months before Stobart had to abort the start of commercial flights. I cannot think of a more reliable method of establishing demand, and it's inconceivable to me that Loganair would come back on board had 'sales' fallen below a level they could work with.

A SEN-CAX commuter route was always questionable, but to my simple mind flights to DUB and BHD make perfect sense.

[highwideandugly]

DC3 Dave..valid point..been connected to Carlisle since 1960..it won’t work..honest..however shoot me down in one year so time..as I have said..great GA airport..but that’s it.Great Logistics road transport site..period!

Loganair , since the conception have bigger fish to fry? Taking over more lucrative business routes from BMI?

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by DC3 Dave

​​​​​ it's inconceivable to me that Loganair would come back on board had 'sales' fallen below a level they could work with.
.

I would be surprised if Loganair were taking much commercial risk on these routes - surely it's more likely that Stobart is providing a revenue guarantee or similar (in parallel with whatever inducements have assisted in bringing Loganair Embraers to SEN...)

[DC3 Dave]

Originally Posted by Cyrano

I would be surprised if Loganair were taking much commercial risk on these routes - surely it's more likely that Stobart is providing a revenue guarantee or similar (in parallel with whatever inducements have assisted in bringing Loganair Embraers to SEN...)

Fees at CAX and SEN? Quite possibly - although I don't personally think so - zero. But a revenue guarantee? No way. This route adds nothing to SEN to enhance its value as an asset for future disposal, and, because this commercial activity could end in the blink of an eye, little to CAX either.

Loganair are willing to accept their share of the risk, they are in the business of aviation after all.
​​​​​​

[mariofly12]

Is there really a need for commercial flights to this tiny airport with EDI and GLA up the road,NCL so close, LBA,MAN,LPL,DSA just down the road??