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Carlisle-2

Old 6th Dec 2016, 14:23
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I thought the motorway that went past Carlisle was the M6?

Last edited by SWBKCB; 6th Dec 2016 at 15:12.
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Old 6th Dec 2016, 15:11
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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The thread was hijacked a couple of months ago and now it appears to be about how you get between any pair of UK airports by motorway.
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Old 6th Dec 2016, 20:44
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Does anybody really see flights from CAX starting in the next 5 years? I don't.

Last edited by rowly6339; 7th Dec 2016 at 01:26.
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Old 6th Dec 2016, 21:24
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Originally Posted by NorthSouth View Post
I think you must have been away a long time! Halfway round the M25 isn't in my "pleasant" book.
I'm sure the reason NWI-AMS has survived all these years is 90% to do with the Southern North Sea gas industry, not the difficulty of road connections to Heathrow.
Also university students from Asia that go to the UEA, it carries 130,000 pax plus a year and continues to grow.
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Old 7th Dec 2016, 07:08
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Also university students from Asia that go to the UEA
UEA has what, 4500 students? Say 10% of them are from Asia and they all fly via AMS to NWI. That's 450 people flying in and out of NWI 6 times a year or 2700 passengers a year. And that's assuming they all fly in and out each term which is highly unlikely.

OK, a contribution to a route and it all helps, but not a real game changer, imho.

(UEA student 1975-1978)
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Old 7th Dec 2016, 22:14
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As does Carlisle (the thread starter can't have searched too hard...)
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airpo...rlisle-12.html
Might one suggest the Mods combine both threads please
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 11:40
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Carlisle-2

Carlisle has just been referred to over on the DTVA thread as an example of an airport embarking on expansion, with references to Stobart's Southend example too.

Just thought I'd throw out there if anyone can think of an example of a successful commercial airport with a military danger area at 7nm final for the main runway direction, with fast jets doing high energy manoeuvring both inside and outside the danger area? Add to that the fact that there are no plans for Carlisle to get radar.

We've recently had the example of Flybe pulling out of Dundee because of the perceived hazards of operating CAT from a non-radar Class G airport with lots of light aircraft around. But at least the conflicts there were all with aircraft doing no more than 100 knots. At Carlisle most of them are doing 400+.
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 16:49
  #28 (permalink)  
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I head Newcastle we're going to do the radar?

Anyway..don't think the military have any fast jets now! More problems than that for the airport successfully delivering on Stobarts promises?
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 16:52
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Can anyone tell me size of it's catchment area, and how many millions of prospective pax it encapsulates?
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 17:29
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About 5,000,000 sheep and 100,000 leople in the local Carlisle area
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 17:32
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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And the tourist attraction of the Lake district.
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 18:00
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Not all of which is massively hugely closer to Carlisle than Manchester is...
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 18:44
  #33 (permalink)  
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This tourist attraction card has been mentioned before.Majority are day trips on coaches from local area or tourists passing through to Scotland.Next highest are walkers..so how much can you get in those overhead ATR lockers..walking sticks,boots,dogs,you get my drift.Arrive at airport and you are still 30 plus miles from the start of the real lakes..car hire anyone...not yet in place.Bus service..not yet in place...train...nope.
The answer is to attract new inbound tourism..over to the tourist board.Business passengers just does not exist..history has proven that.
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 19:31
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5,000,000 sheep eh?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUINoVAL-_A
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Old 4th Sep 2017, 20:40
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I head Newcastle we're going to do the radar?
No chance. No reliable cover over Carlisle below 3000ft from that radar and Stobarts wouldn't pay for the controllers.
Anyway..don't think the military have any fast jets now!!!!
It only takes one
More problems than that for the airport successfully delivering on Stobarts promises??
Indeed. But no-one's mentioning this one.
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Old 5th Sep 2017, 04:51
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Running an airfield that has no passengers will always be substantially cheaper to run than an airfield used by just a few dozen passengers a day. So what would be the income generated by those passengers?

Factor in fire cover and the extra staff needed to operate a passenger operation and the bills start to rise.

With just a few passengers it will be tough to turn a profit when those same passengers are offered the flexibility of an hourly train service to the heart of London just a few miles away.

Factor check-in times and onward travel to London and the plane is not quite as appealing but if Stobart wants to give it a try then good luck to them. Still don't agree to a government handout to run a route to London when there is already a train service.
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Old 5th Sep 2017, 07:42
  #37 (permalink)  
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Agree LTN. Re subsidies. Would it not benefit the whole area more if the A69 between Carlisle and Newcastle were to be duelled? Carlisle already has excellent road links north south...what is needed for the final piece of the jigsaw is east west? That money would be better spent on the road and probably ..rail network.
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Old 5th Sep 2017, 08:51
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
Running an airfield that has no passengers will always be substantially cheaper to run than an airfield used by just a few dozen passengers a day. So what would be the income generated by those passengers?

Factor in fire cover and the extra staff needed to operate a passenger operation and the bills start to rise.

With just a few passengers it will be tough to turn a profit when those same passengers are offered the flexibility of an hourly train service to the heart of London just a few miles away.

Factor check-in times and onward travel to London and the plane is not quite as appealing but if Stobart wants to give it a try then good luck to them. Still don't agree to a government handout to run a route to London when there is already a train service.
The train being quicker from central Carlisle to central London has been the subjecty of many previous discussions here on PPRuNe, alas we are not supposed to discuss trains, nor indeed 69 by-pass's, here and those discussions didn't meet with the approval of the enthusiasts of a particular airport in Essex ... But enough said about Clacton

As LTN suggests, good luck to them but I'm another that can't see it working out.
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Old 5th Sep 2017, 09:22
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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I could write paragraphs about why I would fly to Carlisle or Glasgow from south-east Essex, and take the train to Newcastle or Edinburgh, but I can hear groans from some and sense fury from others so I'll stop myself.

Surely it's all about the limit of Stobart's ambition with regard to passenger services. If all they're looking to achieve is 100,000 p.a. then they may get there one day.

Of course, they may strike a deal with FR to base a few 738's there, and re-name the airport, Glasgow South, Newcastle West or Manchester North.
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Old 5th Sep 2017, 10:58
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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They seemed pretty certain that they are aiming to mirror Southend.
By giving free slots to easy jet.
Look at it this way the A69 is not the safest or best road.
It has for the most part remained as it always has .
Passing through one village after another.
Plus your forgetting Dumfries and Galloway. Prestwick is a pain to drive to ( I've done it ) from anywhere in Galloway .
And has little to offer.
DTV is almost dead .
You have to leave the UK to go anywhere unless you want to go to ABZ .
There is also The Yorkshire Dales, lake district and Barrow.
Carlisle having spent a fair few hpursxover there is quite busy with BIZ jets already .
They seem commited to making this work.
Yes NCL is close but as Manchester and surrounding Motorways become ever more congested HS3 a distant dream , which is NOT coming to Carlisle it fizzles out at Crewe.
We are talking the here and now.
NOT what road or rail connections may be available years down the track.
The A66 is terrible twin track to single . They've left very dangerous bends tacked onto the ends of fast road sections.
And that doesn't take you near enough to Newcastle.
There seemed be a lot of local interest and support around .
Nobody I spoke to would not use services when and if offered .
Edinburgh and Glasgow are 150odd km+ distant MAN just as far .
NCL is linked by a dirt track.
So to see a new Venture work can only be a good thing.
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