TUI Airways

[ROC10]

Originally Posted by CMM

Wamos 747 positioning to MAN from MAD at the moment. Anyone know what it’s covering?

I'm assuming it will be covering today's MAN-SID-MAN which was supposed to leave this morning but was unable to operate due to G-OBYH being stuck in LPA overnight last night (only just heading back to MAN now). The SID flight has been rescheduled for tomorrow morning.

On a similar note, there have been various ACMI airlines helping TUI this weekend:
AirExplore B738 OM-KEX (working from BRS)
Smartlynx A320 ES-SAK (working from STN and BRS)
GetJet A320 LY-COB (working from MAN and BHX)
Gowair A320 EC-MQH (working from DSA and BRS)
Titan A321 G-POWU (working from LGW)
and possibly others I may have missed.

[manchesterflyer]

[QUOTE=Cazza_fly;10688829]Which essentially is a mirror image of TUI Airways operations, when compared to the rest of the airline group.[/QUOTE
TUI Airwats

TUI Airways UK & TUI Nordic fall under the same Northern Region management board.
However in terms of regulatory control TUI Nordic falls under Swedish auspices, hence any restrictions that G-Reg operations may face in terms of intra-EU flying will not apply to a Swedish registered aeroplane. Hence DUB based cabin crew attestations were transferred to the Swedish register at the end of last year in order to mitigate any disruption caused by a hard Brexit, as there was uncertainty at the time over whether G-Reg a/c would be able to operate the flying programme following a no-deal Brexit.

[ROC10]

[QUOTE=manchesterflyer;10689218]

Originally Posted by Cazza_fly

Which essentially is a mirror image of TUI Airways operations, when compared to the rest of the airline group.[/QUOTE
TUI Airwats

TUI Airways UK & TUI Nordic fall under the same Northern Region management board.
However in terms of regulatory control TUI Nordic falls under Swedish auspices, hence any restrictions that G-Reg operations may face in terms of intra-EU flying will not apply to a Swedish registered aeroplane. Hence DUB based cabin crew attestations were transferred to the Swedish register at the end of last year in order to mitigate any disruption caused by a hard Brexit, as there was uncertainty at the time over whether G-Reg a/c would be able to operate the flying programme following a no-deal Brexit.

As mentioned above, the aircraft used for the DUB flights is a G-reg aircraft so this must not be the issue. The flights are operated by TUI fly Nordic on a TUI UK aircraft on behalf of TUI Ireland (no airline).

[Cloud1]

[QUOTE=ROC10;10689412]

Originally Posted by manchesterflyer

As mentioned above, the aircraft used for the DUB flights is a G-reg aircraft so this must not be the issue. The flights are operated by TUI fly Nordic on a TUI UK aircraft on behalf of TUI Ireland (no airline).

It is G-reg, operating under the Swedish airline AOC. All very confusing at first but there is some sort of technicality that allows this to work. All Brexit related. So great the airline was able to hatch a plan to get customers on their holidays. No doubt with increased overheads to cover these Brexit changes, holiday prices will rise at some point?

[rog747]

TUI had a bit of a weekend at BRS
The Air Explore 738 that came in FRI night to operate the SAT GVA as they did not have a TUI 738, went Tech and a Gowair A320 was brought in to cover....

[flyerguy]

First flights to Sharm started yesterday since the ban was stopped.

looks like good Load Factors so far!

[ROC10]

SSH flights are now showing in TUI’s timetable from the following bases for S21:

BHX
BRS
CWL
DSA
EDI
LGW
LTN
STN
MAN
NCL

Strangely though, the majority of departures are currently showing as mid-late morning (i.e. between 10:00 and 12:00). Therefore, if this is correct, unless other flights are dropped (in most cases two flights would need to be dropped), an extra aircraft will be required at various bases on certain days through the week.

The bases from which flights are not showing are: ABZ/BFS/BOH/EMA/EXT/GLA/NWI. There is still of course time for more flights to be added.

For S20, flights are only available from LGW/MAN/BHX/BRS.

[nivsy]

TUI annoying EDI bound pax according to the Daily Record and other press.....(can't say I fancy this journey much).https://www-dailyrecord-co-uk.cdn.am...burgh-21548543

[JonnyH]

Originally Posted by ROC10

SSH flights are now showing in TUI’s timetable from the following bases for S21:

BHX
BRS
CWL
DSA
EDI
LGW
LTN
STN
MAN
NCL

Strangely though, the majority of departures are currently showing as mid-late morning (i.e. between 10:00 and 12:00). Therefore, if this is correct, unless other flights are dropped (in most cases two flights would need to be dropped), an extra aircraft will be required at various bases on certain days through the week.

The bases from which flights are not showing are: ABZ/BFS/BOH/EMA/EXT/GLA/NWI. There is still of course time for more flights to be added.

For S20, flights are only available from LGW/MAN/BHX/BRS.

It could well be operated by a 788/789 from some of these bases which will be coming from LH in some cases. The MAX should be, you would expect, back by then too.

[ROC10]

Originally Posted by nivsy

TUI annoying EDI bound pax according to the Daily Record and other press.....(can't say I fancy this journey much).https://www-dailyrecord-co-uk.cdn.am...burgh-21548543

This has got to be one of the worst examples I’ve seen recently. I completely understand the issues around crew hours but it does seem difficult to believe TUI wouldn’t have known this prior to departure yet failed to inform passengers until five minutes before landing (apparently even the onboard screens displayed LGW as the destination but crew did not mention this). The way they were treated on arrival to LGW is definitely the worst part though, especially after already being delayed by 4 hours. This particular case has attracted hundreds of angry comments across various social media sites.

[wallp]

Luton fleet

What is TUI's based fleet at LTN this summer?

[ROC10]

Originally Posted by wallp

What is TUI's based fleet at LTN this summer?

1x738 as far as I'm aware

[22/04]

What is TUI's based fleet at LTN this summer?

Was going to be 1x 738 all week and second something like Mon-Thu which goes to BOH for the weekend

[Vokes55]

Originally Posted by ROC10

This has got to be one of the worst examples I’ve seen recently. I completely understand the issues around crew hours but it does seem difficult to believe TUI wouldn’t have known this prior to departure yet failed to inform passengers until five minutes before landing (apparently even the onboard screens displayed LGW as the destination but crew did not mention this). The way they were treated on arrival to LGW is definitely the worst part though, especially after already being delayed by 4 hours. This particular case has attracted hundreds of angry comments across various social media sites.

So what exactly would you have done differently? Cancel the flight before it left Edinburgh like the majority of other carriers would have given the risk of not making it back within hours? Forced the crew to work beyond their legal flying limits? Left the passengers onboard or in the terminal until a standby crew could've been called out to fly them to Edinburgh (probably around 7am earliest)? Put all the passengers on the next available flights back to Edinburgh from Gatwick (on a half term Friday)? Genuinely interested in the armchair CEO solution.

Originally Posted by ROC10

it does seem difficult to believe TUI wouldn’t have known this prior to departure

Does it? I've had many flights that have gone within 10 minutes of max FDP. There was a French ATC strike on the same day, the flight took an Oceanic routing to avoid French airspace, and could've been subject to ATC slots (yes, even at that time of night). The crew would've tried to get back to Edinburgh, but the max FDP is a boundary that cannot be willingly crossed, even by a minute. Something as simple as a pushback delay due to ramp congestion, having to wait at the runway holding point for an arrival, avoiding weather en route, less favourable winds than forecast or having to reduce cruising speed due to turbulence could make or break the ability to legally get back to EDI or not.

If they knew they were going to Gatwick before they departed, the company would've had an extra four hours to arrange onward travel for the moment they arrived

[nivsy]

Originally Posted by Vokes55

So what exactly would you have done differently? Cancel the flight before it left Edinburgh like the majority of other carriers would have given the risk of not making it back within hours? Forced the crew to work beyond their legal flying limits? Left the passengers onboard or in the terminal until a standby crew could've been called out to fly them to Edinburgh (probably around 7am earliest)? Put all the passengers on the next available flights back to Edinburgh from Gatwick (on a half term Friday)? Genuinely interested in the armchair CEO solution.



Does it? I've had many flights that have gone within 10 minutes of max FDP. There was a French ATC strike on the same day, the flight took an Oceanic routing to avoid French airspace, and could've been subject to ATC slots (yes, even at that time of night). The crew would've tried to get back to Edinburgh, but the max FDP is a boundary that cannot be willingly crossed, even by a minute. Something as simple as a pushback delay due to ramp congestion, having to wait at the runway holding point for an arrival, avoiding weather en route, less favourable winds than forecast or having to reduce cruising speed due to turbulence could make or break the ability to legally get back to EDI or not.

If they knew they were going to Gatwick before they departed, the company would've had an extra four hours to arrange onward travel for the moment they arrived

With all that uncertainty, I can only deduce that their was no guarantee of even reaching the UK before running out of hours. Wondering if the clearance on the ground was for LGW, or EDI.

[Matt995]

Birmingham Summer 2020

latest update for summer 2020 now shows the following based aircraft at Birmingham :-



1 x B788, (+extra B788 for 2 days), 2 x B757, 4 x B738, 1 x A321, 2 x A320



so 2 leased in Airbus A320's and 1 A321, any ideas which airlines these will be coming from?

[ROC10]

Originally Posted by Vokes55

So what exactly would you have done differently? Cancel the flight before it left Edinburgh like the majority of other carriers would have given the risk of not making it back within hours? Forced the crew to work beyond their legal flying limits? Left the passengers onboard or in the terminal until a standby crew could've been called out to fly them to Edinburgh (probably around 7am earliest)? Put all the passengers on the next available flights back to Edinburgh from Gatwick (on a half term Friday)? Genuinely interested in the armchair CEO solution.

Does it? I've had many flights that have gone within 10 minutes of max FDP. There was a French ATC strike on the same day, the flight took an Oceanic routing to avoid French airspace, and could've been subject to ATC slots (yes, even at that time of night). The crew would've tried to get back to Edinburgh, but the max FDP is a boundary that cannot be willingly crossed, even by a minute. Something as simple as a pushback delay due to ramp congestion, having to wait at the runway holding point for an arrival, avoiding weather en route, less favourable winds than forecast or having to reduce cruising speed due to turbulence could make or break the ability to legally get back to EDI or not.

If they knew they were going to Gatwick before they departed, the company would've had an extra four hours to arrange onward travel for the moment they arrived

It’s not in TUI’s interest to cancel flights so no, of course I’m not suggesting that. In this kind of situation though they normally tend to bring in a standby aircraft/crew to operate the flight (rather than wait 4 hours for whatever issue there was to be resolved) or operate only the outbound and reschedule the inbound until the next day, putting the passengers up in a hotel down-route (I appreciate this is expensive but they ended up having to do it at LGW anyway). I can safely say the vast majority would have preferred to have their flight delayed by approximately 24 hours and have another night in Lanzarote than be dumped at Gatwick, wait outside in the cold for hours to be put in a hotel and then face a 10-hour coach journey the following afternoon/evening.

Obviosuly I can’t say for sure whether or not they ever intended to go to EDI but a passenger has been quoted as saying the onboard screens displayed LGW as the flight’s destination. Whether the crew tried to ‘hide’ this and then only inform them five minutes before landing, I again don’t know (I am, of course, not suggesting the crew willingly did this but that it’s perhaps what the company asked them to do). As the other poster suggested, with so much uncertainty over whether they could make EDI, should they really have departed at all? I appreciate LGW is a bit closer but the flight still took around 4 hours.

Again, don’t take this as questioning the crew’s abilities as I am absolutely not doing so but rather the company’s transparency with its customers. From experience, both personally and anecdotally, in this case and also in previous cases (with TUI), it doesn’t tend to be delay itself that bothers passengers so much, but rather, a lack of information and poor aftercare (certainly valid in this case). TUI often do well in dealing with delays (they seem to have done reasonably well with the LPA fiasco this evening, at least for cruise passengers anyway, but again, lack of information is a common theme) but one could argue this is expected of what is a holiday company and not just another budget airline. I would say Jet2 certainly have them beaten in this area.

[SWBKCB]

What we don't know is what was happening on the day - it's easy to say they should have done this and should have done that but sh*t happens.

These situations tend to be very dynamic - it's easy to say you need to be transparent but many a time I've said something and then something else goes wrong that makes you look like a liar...

Never underestimate Murphy's law.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I wonder how they got on yesterday with flights to the Canary Islands due to the sand storm that closed airports at TFS, TFN and LPA.
At least 30 flights were diverted to other airports, l have no idea if they had any flights into TFS or LPA.

[ericlday]

Diverting from TFS around 19.00 last night but fully operational today (Sunday) Still very windy but more or less straight down the runway so no crosswind component.
Correction to the above....windshear on 07