TUI Airways
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Any extra aircraft coming to TUI winter 19/summer 20 with the sad demise of TCX??...it looks like Jet2 are stealing a march!! Extra 320’s from smartlynx and an Evlope 330!!!..come on TUI 🤔
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I’ve never heard of British airlines having to wet lease or damp lease aircraft over the winter. All TUIs 787s and 767s just do long haul over the winter and 4 of their 737s go to Canada to reduce their surplus. Given how quiet Jet2 traditionally are in the winter, I can’t figure out why they have such a winter demand for extra capacity - I would have thought they would have plenty of spare aircraft of their own over the winter to take up the slack left by Thomas cook.
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I’ve never heard of British airlines having to wet lease or damp lease aircraft over the winter. All TUIs 787s and 767s just do long haul over the winter and 4 of their 737s go to Canada to reduce their surplus. Given how quiet Jet2 traditionally are in the winter, I can’t figure out why they have such a winter demand for extra capacity - I would have thought they would have plenty of spare aircraft of their own over the winter to take up the slack left by Thomas cook.
For sure there will be plenty of ex-TCX hotel rooms available. Jet2 might just have picked up the phone and had a little chat with them.
Strike while the irons hot?
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I’ve never heard of British airlines having to wet lease or damp lease aircraft over the winter. All TUIs 787s and 767s just do long haul over the winter and 4 of their 737s go to Canada to reduce their surplus. Given how quiet Jet2 traditionally are in the winter, I can’t figure out why they have such a winter demand for extra capacity - I would have thought they would have plenty of spare aircraft of their own over the winter to take up the slack left by Thomas cook.
6 737’s going to Canada not 4. uk reg 767s staying on short haul. Plus the small matter of 9 max aircraft down and the 757s starting to go off lease. I’d be very surprised not to see a few leased in frames for the winter. Especially when ski season kicks off in mid to late December.
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Lots of errors in that post.
6 737’s going to Canada not 4. uk reg 767s staying on short haul. Plus the small matter of 9 max aircraft down and the 757s starting to go off lease. I’d be very surprised not to see a few leased in frames for the winter. Especially when ski season kicks off in mid to late December.
Normally the 767s head over to Scandinavia and work long and medium-haul from there so it’s definitely a change to have them staying with TOM doing s/h but I guess that could help out with MAX shortages at MAN.
Any ideas which 757s will leave this winter? I’m guessing probably CPEV and OOBG (which were wfu earlier this year before being reinstated). OOBF is doing the luxury tours and is much younger so imagine it’ll be staying along with probably OOBC/D/E and BYAW/Y at least.
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You’re right, there are definitely always more than 4 738s that go to Canada; is 6 the confirmed figure for this year? Would’ve thought they might have wanted to reduce that number given the shortages but I guess it may have been agreed long ago and SWG are also missing MAXs.
Normally the 767s head over to Scandinavia and work long and medium-haul from there so it’s definitely a change to have them staying with TOM doing s/h but I guess that could help out with MAX shortages at MAN.
Any ideas which 757s will leave this winter? I’m guessing probably CPEV and OOBG (which were wfu earlier this year before being reinstated). OOBF is doing the luxury tours and is much younger so imagine it’ll be staying along with probably OOBC/D/E and BYAW/Y at least.
Join Date: Sep 2012
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It'll be interesting what happens over the coming months to replace the Thomas Cook capacity both now, over the winter and into next year.
Join Date: Aug 2013
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True. The hotel rooms will still be there and the hoteliers will want them filled, so it's just a case of laying on sufficient seats...though maybe not necessarily like-for-like if some markets had a surplus of capacity anyway, which may be bad news for consumers if it leads to higher prices.
It'll be interesting what happens over the coming months to replace the Thomas Cook capacity both now, over the winter and into next year.
It'll be interesting what happens over the coming months to replace the Thomas Cook capacity both now, over the winter and into next year.
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How long have the 2 767s got left now? I notice YF moved to Scandinavia and was re registred with OH coming the other way. Both are around 20 years old now
Last edited by Danny G; 1st Oct 2019 at 20:56.
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Not seen BAL but its common to see BY over TOM, as it's still officially their IATA code. However, TUI choose to favour their ICAO code of TOM for passenger communication. Where have you seen/heard BAL being used?
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BAL has certainly been used for LGW flights. Given the numbers always usually begin with "5", I think these may be TOM taking over flights that were operated by Norwegian etc in the height of summer.
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Unfortunately, TUI have absolutely no interest in expanding. At least in the short-term...
They're viewing this winter as a time to 'stabilise the operation' and, imho as a money pot for their yields... Up the revenue on their current seats before adding more.
Seems the business has a rigid and inflexible structure, they're not willing to lease in capacity and are sticking with their plans to retire some of the 757s allowing for the 737s to take up the void through the rest of W19. They're currently hoping for the return of the MAX fleet by February 2020. What happens if the MAX isn't flying by then is anyone's guess.
The company is 'vertically integrated' in order to control most aspects of it's own supply chain. This great for maintaining a cost base, but turns the company into a sluggish goliath when it comes to being agile and flexible to market changes. This is where Jet2 will make a killing.
In a nutshell, Vertical Integration can be seen like this:
Marketing > Flights > Destination Services > Content (Hotels/Cruises)
In the end, TUI are seeing the demise of TCX as a god send for their profit margins and not as an opportunity to expand further into different markets, at least not in the short term... Expansion will happen eventually, but this will be at the 'standard' slow/steady pace that TUI has always worked to.
They're viewing this winter as a time to 'stabilise the operation' and, imho as a money pot for their yields... Up the revenue on their current seats before adding more.
Seems the business has a rigid and inflexible structure, they're not willing to lease in capacity and are sticking with their plans to retire some of the 757s allowing for the 737s to take up the void through the rest of W19. They're currently hoping for the return of the MAX fleet by February 2020. What happens if the MAX isn't flying by then is anyone's guess.
The company is 'vertically integrated' in order to control most aspects of it's own supply chain. This great for maintaining a cost base, but turns the company into a sluggish goliath when it comes to being agile and flexible to market changes. This is where Jet2 will make a killing.
In a nutshell, Vertical Integration can be seen like this:
Marketing > Flights > Destination Services > Content (Hotels/Cruises)
- TUI Marketing is heavily involved with pushing the TUI 'Brand Strategy'. This is centred around advertising a TUI holiday on a TUI flight with a TUI hotel, etc.
- TUI Airways won't add flights a request from the Tour Operator, even without the MAX groundings, TUI remains focused on retiring older 757s through W19, allowing 737s to pick up the flack (they currently expect the MAX to return by Feb 2020). So even if capacity was available, TUI Airways are powerless to use it without the Tour Operator.
- TUI Destination Services would need to either increase presence in current markets or open up new offices to establish a presence, this would involve contracting transport/transfers/service/handling/excursions and represents a significant cost.
- TUI Tour Operator won't contract 3rd party hotels as they're heavily invested in their 'own' brand hotels/cruises (TUI Blue, RIU, Family Life, Marella, etc).
In the end, TUI are seeing the demise of TCX as a god send for their profit margins and not as an opportunity to expand further into different markets, at least not in the short term... Expansion will happen eventually, but this will be at the 'standard' slow/steady pace that TUI has always worked to.
Join Date: Jul 2017
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With demand far outweighing supply over the next year or 2 at least, prices will highly likely go up for summer holidays. It would be interesting to see if there is a shift to more winter holidays if prices are cheaper. TUI would be able to provide the capacity during the winter, with aircraft often only operating one flight per day at the smaller bases, and not sending some aircraft over the pond. Summer seasonal crews can be extended too.
Right are you paying the illiberal and possible illegal under international law and rights of the child and that of the parent to parent ! -
Fines for taking your kids out of school in term time !
Probably not , but anyway go just about anywhere within Europe between the end of November and April and it isn’t unexpected for it to rain and for temperatures being less than spectacular , That includes places as far as Cyprus - Nicosia is bl**dy cold in January through early March I can tell you !
Winter sun its really gotta be Southern Canary resorts . West Africa and the Red Sea and further and the carriers just can’t keep anywhere same fleet numbers busy
The work for the Canadian tour companies down to Cancun, Cuba and other Caribbean isles is VERY valuable business for TUI/Smart Wings/Transavia and such.
The winter ski and fondue runs keep the remaining fleets busy pretty just on Saturday mornings really.
If you don’t believe me visit Manchester mid week and count to dozen or so Jet2 planes going nowhere .
That ain’t changing anytime soon.
PS remember that very large parts of the UK industrial private sector holiday entitlement is rather less the the headline 5 and 6 weeks the mass media might imply.
Three weeks available to take at your leisure , With a week to be held for Christmas close or stock taking periods and what is oh six bank holidays is actually the norm !
Add those school fines and huge numbers of families are exceptionally restricted as when the can actually travel (if they can even afford it !)
Join Date: Feb 2018
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Unfortunately, TUI have absolutely no interest in expanding. At least in the short-term...
They're viewing this winter as a time to 'stabilise the operation' and, imho as a money pot for their yields... Up the revenue on their current seats before adding more.
Seems the business has a rigid and inflexible structure, they're not willing to lease in capacity and are sticking with their plans to retire some of the 757s allowing for the 737s to take up the void through the rest of W19. They're currently hoping for the return of the MAX fleet by February 2020. What happens if the MAX isn't flying by then is anyone's guess.
The company is 'vertically integrated' in order to control most aspects of it's own supply chain. This great for maintaining a cost base, but turns the company into a sluggish goliath when it comes to being agile and flexible to market changes. This is where Jet2 will make a killing.
In a nutshell, Vertical Integration can be seen like this:
Marketing > Flights > Destination Services > Content (Hotels/Cruises)
In the end, TUI are seeing the demise of TCX as a god send for their profit margins and not as an opportunity to expand further into different markets, at least not in the short term... Expansion will happen eventually, but this will be at the 'standard' slow/steady pace that TUI has always worked to.
They're viewing this winter as a time to 'stabilise the operation' and, imho as a money pot for their yields... Up the revenue on their current seats before adding more.
Seems the business has a rigid and inflexible structure, they're not willing to lease in capacity and are sticking with their plans to retire some of the 757s allowing for the 737s to take up the void through the rest of W19. They're currently hoping for the return of the MAX fleet by February 2020. What happens if the MAX isn't flying by then is anyone's guess.
The company is 'vertically integrated' in order to control most aspects of it's own supply chain. This great for maintaining a cost base, but turns the company into a sluggish goliath when it comes to being agile and flexible to market changes. This is where Jet2 will make a killing.
In a nutshell, Vertical Integration can be seen like this:
Marketing > Flights > Destination Services > Content (Hotels/Cruises)
- TUI Marketing is heavily involved with pushing the TUI 'Brand Strategy'. This is centred around advertising a TUI holiday on a TUI flight with a TUI hotel, etc.
- TUI Airways won't add flights a request from the Tour Operator, even without the MAX groundings, TUI remains focused on retiring older 757s through W19, allowing 737s to pick up the flack (they currently expect the MAX to return by Feb 2020). So even if capacity was available, TUI Airways are powerless to use it without the Tour Operator.
- TUI Destination Services would need to either increase presence in current markets or open up new offices to establish a presence, this would involve contracting transport/transfers/service/handling/excursions and represents a significant cost.
- TUI Tour Operator won't contract 3rd party hotels as they're heavily invested in their 'own' brand hotels/cruises (TUI Blue, RIU, Family Life, Marella, etc).
In the end, TUI are seeing the demise of TCX as a god send for their profit margins and not as an opportunity to expand further into different markets, at least not in the short term... Expansion will happen eventually, but this will be at the 'standard' slow/steady pace that TUI has always worked to.
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TUI Germany
I see that TUI Fly (Germany) has decided to enter the long-haul market by starting with two B787s.
When and from where they will get them from, l don't know but maybe within the group.
When and from where they will get them from, l don't know but maybe within the group.
