TUI Airways

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by azz767

I can't see it being scrapped so young. The 757 makes so much money for airlines still that I think a number of airlines would jump at the chance of a younger example.

But it's all about economy, and the fuel burn on a new 737MAX has got to be so much lower than on a 1970 technology 757. I'm sure they'll find new homes though, probably as freighters.

[Vokes55]

Originally Posted by ATNotts

But it's all about economy, and the fuel burn on a new 737MAX has got to be so much lower than on a 1970 technology 757. I'm sure they'll find new homes though, probably as freighters.

But the lease costs on 1970 technology 757s are much lower than on a new 737MAX.

Word around the camp fire is that TUI would’ve preferred to keep the 757s, but the leasing companies had already found new homes for them after freighter conversion.

[737James]

It would be interesting to here from some of the TUI crew on how the 737 Max fuel consumption varies against the 738's and also the 757's especially on the longer routes like LCA,PFO and HRG I know on the 738 the Eastern Med destinations are normally around 14-15 Tonnes fuel uplift ex UK

[ROC10]

Will the MAX be able to operate to/from BVC/SID? The only bases with these flights are LGW/MAN/BHX/BRS.

I’d imagine the MAX should be fine for LGW/MAN/BHX to BVC and SID. Likewise I’d imagine SID to LGW/MAN/BHX/BRS should be fine. However, not sure about BVC to LGW/MAN/BHX. I know the 757s will be around for another year or two but what will happen to Cape Verde flights when they leave? Are fuel stops liekely?

It appears BRS will lose both of its 757s this summer and will not gain any MAXs. With BRS-SID-BRS being taken off the Dreamliner, will the 738 manage this? I’m sure SID-BRS will be fine but not sure about the outbound.

[rog747]

Originally Posted by ATNotts

But it's all about economy, and the fuel burn on a new 737MAX has got to be so much lower than on a 1970 technology 757. I'm sure they'll find new homes though, probably as freighters.

Although developed through the later 1970's as a 727 replacement (models 727-300, 7N7 & 7X7) the 757 and 767 were 1980's high tech - bloody awesome when we got them in 1983 - glass screens - common type rating - very advanced - loads of power - even more when in 1985 the E4 engine came along... ETOPS in 1988 - load it up and it flew almost anywhere - A couple of Palma's in the daytime and send it off to the Maldives in the evening.

If TOM are getting rid of these 757's sequentially they either are going back off lease, or could well be due a very expensive C check. (or both)

As for the 738 & Max BRS to Banjul and Cape Verde - Should be OK direct going south with 189 pax - The BRS runway is the limiting factor -
Coming back north, if you have head winds you may have to tech stop occasionally - and seems many Boa Vista 737 flights all stop at SAL on the way back including Max.
The 757 and 321 doesn't have to.

The 737-800 and Max are not the most perfect replacement for the 757 at BRS but TOM have decided that's the way they are going with fleet wide commonality.
The 235 seat A321NEO/LR/ACF Leap would have been a much better buy - not quite a 757 but getting there...

[MerchantVenturer]

Originally Posted by rog747

The 737-800 and Max are not the most perfect replacement for the 757 at BRS but TOM have decided that's the way they are going with fleet wide commonality.

TUI has had a couple of B737-800s based at BRS alongside the two B757s each summer for a few years now. The 737s have not been restricted to the shorter routes either. Last summer for instance they operated to the likes of Hurghada, Cyprus, Greek Islands and the Canaries. Summer 2019 will see four 737-800s with the B787-8 serving the airport for five days each week and six routes, three of which are short haul. Last summer it was there for four days with four routes, all long haul (well, one was Sal which might not be considered truly long haul).

In terms of the B737-800 or MAX 8 not being the most perfect replacement for the 757 at BRS, do you mean operationally or comercially given the loss of seats brought about by replacing 757s with 737-800s or 737 MAX 8s if and when the latter arrive at BRS in the future? If operationally, have there been problems with the TUI 737s operating out of BRS (Ryanair has a substantial presence too of course). I have no technical knowledge although I thought I read something about the 737-800 brakes on shorter runways.

This is a genuine question by someone still keen to learn.

[rog747]

Originally Posted by MerchantVenturer

TUI has had a couple of B737-800s based at BRS alongside the two B757s each summer for a few years now. The 737s have not been restricted to the shorter routes either. Last summer for instance they operated to the likes of Hurghada, Cyprus, Greek Islands and the Canaries. Summer 2019 will see four 737-800s with the B787-8 serving the airport for five days each week and six routes, three of which are short haul. Last summer it was there for four days with four routes, all long haul (well, one was Sal which might not be considered truly long haul).

In terms of the B737-800 or MAX 8 not being the most perfect replacement for the 757 at BRS, do you mean operationally or commercially given the loss of seats brought about by replacing 757s with 737-800s or 737 MAX 8s if and when the latter arrive at BRS in the future? If operationally, have there been problems with the TUI 737s operating out of BRS (Ryanair has a substantial presence too of course). I have no technical knowledge although I thought I read something about the 737-800 brakes on shorter runways.

This is a genuine question by someone still keen to learn.

Great Q - Well the answer I guess is both ops and commercial.
My best pal (Just recently retired) was a TUI skipper at BRS since the late 1990's, coming from the RAF, working first for AMM/FCA on the Airbus 320/321 fleet which he loved, and the CFM56 engined versions suited BRS ops very well - much better over the IAE engined versions.
He morphed onto BY/TOM/TUI and the Boeing fleet took precedence in the merged Company so he had to convert to 757/767 (old fashioned flying again which he came to love, after losing his all bells and whistles on the Airbus which he adored - he liked his gadgets)
But the 757 he said was superb.

He told me he knew some years ago the 757's would all go at BRS to be replaced by the 738 - He was not happy as he knew the performance and uplift of the 757 for all the routes at BRS could never match the 738.
He also knew that if he went on the new fleet that diversions to BHX or CWL would be become more frequent as the 738 could not land at BRS in the same weather conditions that the 757's can easily handle - as we saw in storm Callum how a 757 can still get into BRS...

A 757 can seat over 220 seats and can go anywhere, but the 737's hold just 189...
For a package tour operator that is a lot of missing yield and margins £££ to replace.
He told me that at a TUI meeting a couple of years ago it was revealed that Thomsons will profit around a £ or so on each person's holiday booking, if not just pennies...
The buy on board food concept, plus getting rid of all short.medium haul IFE has made TOM a lot of money.
Meals are still free on some medium (such as Cape Verde) and all long haul flights.

So, really cut to the bone.

My pal said to me the new 235 seat A321LR/NEO/Leap with ACF would have been a much better buy - not quite a 757 but getting there but the Group stays with Boeing.

[MerchantVenturer]

Many thanks for that detailed reply, rog. Best wishes.

[VickersVicount]

How many 738 diversions have there been?

[hec7or]

Brits built the business model on destinations around the Med and North Africa for which the 757 was optimal. The 738 can't replace the 757....time to change the business model?

[rog747]

Originally Posted by hec7or

Brits built the business model on destinations around the Med and North Africa for which the 757 was optimal. The 738 can't replace the 757....time to change the business model?

Indeed and also the 757 found massive work on missions for which really it was not designed for which the Brits used to their advantage -
Later on the 767-300 and the A330 replaced the 757's on those routes eventually.

These 757 long range missions were from the UK - to the Maldives Mexico Caribbean Orlando Mombasa Colombo Goa Agra Kerala Thailand (using BGR BAH DXB HER LXR IST as regular Tech stops for these kind of places)

Some EU and Eastern European airlines today fly their 737-800 and Max's to far flung holiday places such as Mombasa and Zanzibar - with tech stops

[NorthEasterner]

737Max ops

Looks like TUI's 737 Max 8 operations will be suspended as the UK announce blanket ban for all 737M8 aircraft in and out of UK airports.

http://news.sky.com/story/boeing-to-...safer-11662753

[737James]

Looks like 3 of them are still airborne now two of which are inbound to the UK, I assume TUI have been told they can bring the aircraft currently airborne back to Manchester but G -TUMF will be grounded in TFS

[ROC10]

Currently:
G-TUMA in MAN
G-TUMB in MAN
G-TUMC in MAN
G-TUMD in MAN
G-TUMF in TFS
G-TUMG in MAN

Not ideal having one stuck in TFS as passenegers will have to be rescued and no one can be sure how long it will be stuck there. I suspect TUI may have anticipated this, hence not sending a MAX to HRG as it would have been far from ideal being stuck there.

Fortunately, for now anyway, they have announced that all flights will operate as planned but on different aircraft rather than cancelling anything. I know it is never in TUI’s interests to cancel flights (being a holiday company) but will they have enough slack in the schedule to cover this? I suspect some days may be fine but others not so much (Saturday ski flights spring to mind). I would imagine this will involve a huge number of positioning flights and possible leasing/chartering of other aircraft. A fair few of their aircraft (737/767) are still on lease in Canada and Scandinavia as well as 787s frequently working from Scandinavia and 757 withdrawal plans.

[MKY661]

TOM2203 now has a 7 hour delay so looks like staying at TFS

[daz211]

TUI airline group grounds all Boeing #737MAX aircraft across their European operations.

[P330]

I presume MF can be ferried back as a non-commercial flight when appropriate. The edict today is for commercial flights.

[virginblue]

With German airspace now closed for all MAX, operating the type across Europe would be quite tricky anyway.

[rog747]

Its still winter season so TUI should be able to cover their own Ops - but if the MAX no fly ban goes on for ages then yes their S19 season will be a trial for TOM/BY and their TUI Benelux counterparts to cover...
Maybe they are de-mothballing any 757's they have just sent back as we speak.(and keeping the 767's)

As for DY/D8/DI/NAX they have a much bigger MAX fleet based in the UK and they do fly charters for TUI Hols.

Enter Air will not be able to fly S19 for Sunvil Holidays own Greece and Greek Islands charter series with any of their MAX fleet if the ban goes on into the Season.

[LiamNCL]

G-TAWX will be in TFS soon to operate TOM2203 TFS-MAN