Edinburgh-3
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 39
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It'll be interesting to see what happens with Islay in the long run. I wonder if this might be the beginning of us finding out which central belt airport can generate the most demand for flights to and from the islands (is serving both really going to be viable?) I suspect the answer might be something messy like that Edinburgh is better at generating demand to the Isles and Glasgow is better at generating demand from the isles?
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A lot of the GLA routes to the Isles are in competition with the Ferries that serve the West Coast, I suppose, with both offering discounts to locals. I think there is probably enough demand for both Airports with the small planes that Loganair use.I do wonder if PSO rules would apply if two cities were served as one would presumably be seen as a commercial venture rather than a lifeline link?
Join Date: May 2002
Location: SW Scotland
Age: 40
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It'll be interesting to see what happens with Islay in the long run. I wonder if this might be the beginning of us finding out which central belt airport can generate the most demand for flights to and from the islands (is serving both really going to be viable?) I suspect the answer might be something messy like that Edinburgh is better at generating demand to the Isles and Glasgow is better at generating demand from the isles?
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Glasgow is by far a better destination for shopping, so it's always going to be a popular destination amongst the locals. Edinburgh on the other hand, being a major tourist destination, opens up the isles to more tourism. This is going to be a major boost to the Islands economies.
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: London
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interested party observation only; From a Lancastrian living in London having businesses in Kent and South Manchester knowing quite a few major retailers Sauchiehall Street shops and cafes are among the most profitable tranditional High Street premises outside London and the South East however I digress.
Edinburgh, York, Chester, Stratford on Avon and Oxford/ Cambridge are the primary points for inward tourism period.
Edinburgh Airport is ideally positioned to capitalise (no pun) on such traffic particularly from China and the US I suppose.
The fact that Hainan are operating aysimetric services probably supports the consensus that tourists either arrive or depart part of their itineraries elsewhere imho.
Edinburgh, York, Chester, Stratford on Avon and Oxford/ Cambridge are the primary points for inward tourism period.
Edinburgh Airport is ideally positioned to capitalise (no pun) on such traffic particularly from China and the US I suppose.
The fact that Hainan are operating aysimetric services probably supports the consensus that tourists either arrive or depart part of their itineraries elsewhere imho.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think we could all agree that regardless of the specific merits of Glasgow and Edinburgh as shopping destinations, Glasgow is generally more attuned to the needs of a destination for an islander visiting the mainland, not least in terms of social, health and commercial links (current and historic). But if I was going to try and persuade a tourist to fly to Islay I'd rather try and persuade them to fly from Edinburgh. (Edinburgh may also have the political links, but I can't imagine they are strong enough to generate a lot of traffic).
I'm genuinely fascinated to see how this resolves itself. If I were Loganair I'd have been too cautious to want to risk unsettling the status quo (I do think the answer will be messy and complicated). Stornoway might be big enough to support flights from both Glasgow and Edinburgh, but of course Stornoway has 4 times the number of passengers.
It is definitely wonderful news for the tourism industry, though. I hope it is marketed well!
I'm genuinely fascinated to see how this resolves itself. If I were Loganair I'd have been too cautious to want to risk unsettling the status quo (I do think the answer will be messy and complicated). Stornoway might be big enough to support flights from both Glasgow and Edinburgh, but of course Stornoway has 4 times the number of passengers.
It is definitely wonderful news for the tourism industry, though. I hope it is marketed well!
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've heard adverts recently on Clyde and Forth from Ryanair stating their summer 2019 fares are now on sale. I'm guessing there won't be any sort of official announcement regarding Scotland for next year then and its as you are with the booking engine.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Offical announcement about what?
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The recent budget will push the APD to £80.00 per person over the age of 16 from April next, this for economy class, fast getting to point where it’s cheaper to fly to Dublin then pick up a US flight, far quicker if you factor in pre clearance, one only has to look at the volume of traffic through Dublin compared with the population.
Easy to see that without a premium front end or onward connections Norwegian decided to walk, the route in terms of numbers has been successful, but when you have to fork out £12800 just in APD alone for every outbound flight ( based on 160 adult passengers) it’s not viable.
APD should be scrapped for all airports outside of LHR & LGW, of course this is not HMRC in Westminster to blame as this is a devolved responsibility to the Scottish assembly.
Easy to see that without a premium front end or onward connections Norwegian decided to walk, the route in terms of numbers has been successful, but when you have to fork out £12800 just in APD alone for every outbound flight ( based on 160 adult passengers) it’s not viable.
APD should be scrapped for all airports outside of LHR & LGW, of course this is not HMRC in Westminster to blame as this is a devolved responsibility to the Scottish assembly.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Severnside
Age: 35
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How about starting by Treasury offsetting punishment of their own regional economies by “Super-taxing” feeder passengers leaving the U.K. to transfer over EU hubs (Dublin, Amsterdam and others), and using funding generated from this to curb the increasingly ridiculous levels of tax they levy on their own assets, thus strengthening growth prospects for their own significant airports (outside London) like MAN, BHX, EDI??? Or is that too un-British?
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: London
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One stop long haul on same ticket within 24 hours pays the Same tax levels.
Self connect adds risk and is effectively tax evasion.
Other than the legal cost of recovery outstripping the tax take value -You could risk a visit from the revenue.
Those frequent travelers ARE monitored however most tend to value time accept the bribes(miles, or similar awards) rather more than inconvenience of a break in their travel arrangements.
Preclearnce really isn’t such a benefit given the extra journey leg imho.
As to transiting Dublin the actual numbers of such passengers is rather smaller than many think - it’s a little over a million yes rising however not a statistically large element of the airports overall terminal passenger numbers close on thirty million a year.
Oh and much of the current growth is being generated from mainland Europe rather than the UK.
No the vast vast majority of UK -Dublin traffic remains point to point..
Self connect adds risk and is effectively tax evasion.
Other than the legal cost of recovery outstripping the tax take value -You could risk a visit from the revenue.
Those frequent travelers ARE monitored however most tend to value time accept the bribes(miles, or similar awards) rather more than inconvenience of a break in their travel arrangements.
Preclearnce really isn’t such a benefit given the extra journey leg imho.
As to transiting Dublin the actual numbers of such passengers is rather smaller than many think - it’s a little over a million yes rising however not a statistically large element of the airports overall terminal passenger numbers close on thirty million a year.
Oh and much of the current growth is being generated from mainland Europe rather than the UK.
No the vast vast majority of UK -Dublin traffic remains point to point..
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In what way is self connect tax “evasion “? Tax “avoidance “ yes but avoidance is perfectly legal, just like when you put money in an ISA. All this whinging about APD - the continued growth at Scottish airports, particularly EDI, shows the market can bear it.
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: London
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Because the rule is quite clear and based on the that 24 hour time frame.
Self connect after 24 hours and no problem .Self connect or travel on the same ticket within 24 hours and the duty is Payable period and if you don’t that is evasion not avoidance which is a crime petty in know but still.
ISAs are hardly an analogous, Those are saving schemes specifically designed to encourage smaller saving investments from earnings already taxed elsewhere.
All that said the actual numbers deliberately using the self connect options particularly via Dublin are again probably rather smaller than representative within the aviation interests section we subscribe to here and in the greater scheme of things
Much of the traveling public live blissfully unaware lives and such things particularly irregular travellers whom are likely to visit either the consolidators or airlines directly will pay the taxes anyway.
Repeat and rewind Dublin is an growing connection point for the north altantic - total transfers a little over a million a year significant amouts of which are from or to mainland Europe.
Self connect after 24 hours and no problem .Self connect or travel on the same ticket within 24 hours and the duty is Payable period and if you don’t that is evasion not avoidance which is a crime petty in know but still.
ISAs are hardly an analogous, Those are saving schemes specifically designed to encourage smaller saving investments from earnings already taxed elsewhere.
All that said the actual numbers deliberately using the self connect options particularly via Dublin are again probably rather smaller than representative within the aviation interests section we subscribe to here and in the greater scheme of things
Much of the traveling public live blissfully unaware lives and such things particularly irregular travellers whom are likely to visit either the consolidators or airlines directly will pay the taxes anyway.
Repeat and rewind Dublin is an growing connection point for the north altantic - total transfers a little over a million a year significant amouts of which are from or to mainland Europe.
And how do you propose that the revenue from APD is replaced
Given we are STILL borrowing to spend and the deficit is still not closed and the National Debt looks as if we’ve been at war for years, it doesn’t matter as Team Blue Liar or Red Shyster will still try and buy your vote borrowing against your OWN MONEY. Politicians are just oxygen thieves with media representation, all of them.
Rutan16, what you've written is just complete rubbish and shows a total mis-understanding of the law.
The liability to calculate and remit APD to HMRC rests upon the airline. The airline is obliged to remit the correct APD for the ticket it has sold to the customer and in the case of a passenger on a DIY connection flying EDI-DUB-EDI, it correctly remit short-haul APD even if that customer has a separate ticket DUB-BDL-DUB. If the liability rested with the individual passenger then there would be an argument that your statements would be correct. However, it does not. The airline carrying the passenger on departure from the UK is correctly calculating its liability to pay short-haul APD for the EDI-DUB leg which is what it has sold to that customer in that transaction. Only where a single or conjunction ticket is sold for the EDI-DUB-BDL-DUB-EDI roundtrip does the higher APD become payable.
If one takes your argument to its logical conclusion, then a self-connect passenger flying AMS-LGW-OAK-LGW-AMS on EZY and DY would be able to reclaim (or just not pay) the UK APD paid on the easyJet ticket AMS-LGW-AMS and the Norwegian ticket LGW-OAK-LGW - so a not insubstantial sum. They cannot. Spreadsheet Phil has the lot and keeps it.
I don't mind folk getting on their high horses, honestly, but it does stretch the boundaries when the factual basis of such postings is so far off the mark!
The liability to calculate and remit APD to HMRC rests upon the airline. The airline is obliged to remit the correct APD for the ticket it has sold to the customer and in the case of a passenger on a DIY connection flying EDI-DUB-EDI, it correctly remit short-haul APD even if that customer has a separate ticket DUB-BDL-DUB. If the liability rested with the individual passenger then there would be an argument that your statements would be correct. However, it does not. The airline carrying the passenger on departure from the UK is correctly calculating its liability to pay short-haul APD for the EDI-DUB leg which is what it has sold to that customer in that transaction. Only where a single or conjunction ticket is sold for the EDI-DUB-BDL-DUB-EDI roundtrip does the higher APD become payable.
If one takes your argument to its logical conclusion, then a self-connect passenger flying AMS-LGW-OAK-LGW-AMS on EZY and DY would be able to reclaim (or just not pay) the UK APD paid on the easyJet ticket AMS-LGW-AMS and the Norwegian ticket LGW-OAK-LGW - so a not insubstantial sum. They cannot. Spreadsheet Phil has the lot and keeps it.
I don't mind folk getting on their high horses, honestly, but it does stretch the boundaries when the factual basis of such postings is so far off the mark!
