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Old 4th Sep 2019, 18:27
  #761 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by BAladdy View Post


Interesting to hear that LMs flights from ABZ to NCL are already carrying more passengers than T3. It will be interesting to see if both LM and T3 plan to continue to operate up to 3 x daily when they release there S20 schedules.
Just like the previous N Isles bunfight between Logan & Flybe, I'll give it a few months......
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Old 4th Sep 2019, 18:57
  #762 (permalink)  
 
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Fare war

Initially low fares to entice custom doesn't work in regional aviation. And from what I have seen the LM loads compared to the T3 loads are actually quite comparable.

But taking into the consideration the operational cost of a 145 to a J41 with the same loads it's easy to see who can sustain the lower load factors for longer.

LMs major expansion and rejigging with ultimately lead to their downfall, T3 have learned that and being burned by the partnership with the devil in Purple.

Interesting and rather scary times ahead for both companies.

As a side note, I'd love to see Sierra Nevada successful in bringing the 328 back to the market. A wonderful aircraft.
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Old 4th Sep 2019, 19:36
  #763 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PintofDoom View Post
LMs major expansion and rejigging with ultimately lead to their downfall
I don't agree. LM know exactly what they're doing and are quick to respond and reallocate. They have been doing this for years and have always weathered the storm since the days of widespread expansion and with BAE146s and BAC1-11 / ATPs.
The Emb are probably the equivalent of BAs 744's fuel thirsty and expensive but paid off and overall not as expensive as first apparent.
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Old 4th Sep 2019, 20:11
  #764 (permalink)  
 
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Initially low fares to entice custom doesn't work in regional aviation. And from what I have seen the LM loads compared to the T3 loads are actually quite comparable.
From looking at tomorrow, both airlines are selling at 80ish one-way northbound and on the Thursday night return flights from Aberdeen, fares are bordering on 200 one-way. I wouldn't call that low fares in either camp!

But taking into the consideration the operational cost of a 145 to a J41 with the same loads it's easy to see who can sustain the lower load factors for longer.
That doesn't seem to be the case though. It sounds like LM are getting the higher loads?

LMs major expansion and rejigging with ultimately lead to their downfall, T3 have learned that and being burned by the partnership with the devil in Purple.
Had to laugh at that one - if that's truly what they are telling you, then best of luck to you all. The comment about being burned by the devil in Purple is comedy gold - every account I've heard is that the bloke in charge of Eastern today was the same person responsible for that purple partnership. From all that I see there is a clear objective and if Eastern has learned anything over the years, it's not totally obvious what that might be. Loganair is a much larger airline today than it was, and Eastern is a shrinking shadow of what it was in its heyday.
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Old 4th Sep 2019, 20:18
  #765 (permalink)  
 
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Loganair is a much larger airline today than it was, and Eastern is a shrinking shadow of what it was in its heyday.
Might be worth looking at how the current Loganair got to be so much larger.
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Old 4th Sep 2019, 20:24
  #766 (permalink)  
 
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Absolutely. But the inescapable fact remains that Eastern is about 13 aircraft if what's posted on their thread is correct and Loganair is about 45 depending on what you count or exclude. It's a heck of a difference in size.
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Old 5th Sep 2019, 03:16
  #767 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed! Especially with the prospect of new ATR’s about to enter the fleet.
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 11:33
  #768 (permalink)  
 
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LM are operating weekend GLA-BHX on behalf of BE at the moment. Are BE short of aircraft or crew ?
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 11:33
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Originally Posted by goldeneye View Post
LM are operating weekend GLA-BHX on behalf of BE at the moment. Are BE short of aircraft or crew ?
Probably taking over from the Nordica wet lease.
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 14:09
  #770 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by goldeneye View Post
LM are operating weekend GLA-BHX on behalf of BE at the moment. Are BE short of aircraft or crew ?
I would say crew. They cancelled the GLA-BHX and return on Thursday, citing crew shortages as the reason. Loganair stepped in with an Embraer to cover it. I know that first hand, but I have friends in flyBe tell me the crew shortage is crippling.
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 08:40
  #771 (permalink)  
 
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Loganair have today announced 6 new routes:

Aberdeen to Brussels - Will operate 4 x weekly from 28th October, flights will operate via Newcastle
Aberdeen to East Midlands - Will operate 6 x weekly from 24th February 2020
Aberdeen to Haugesund - Will operate 6 x weekly from 24th February 2020
Glasgow to Cardiff - Will operate Daily from 27th February 2020
Newcastle to Bergen - Begins 26th April 2020
Newcastle to Guernsey - Begins 23rd May 2020

https://www.insider.co.uk/news/logan...vices-19911015



Last edited by BAladdy; 9th Sep 2019 at 09:50. Reason: Link added
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 08:53
  #772 (permalink)  
 
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Edit: I was too slow.

Aberdeen is getting quite a good Norwegian route network now.
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 15:37
  #773 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by tibbs87 View Post
I should think so, considering Saab 340's have landed on the very steep and challenging Elba Airport in Italy on a 949m runway
Around about 2005, one Andy Thornton at the start of his greasy pole climb (Saab tech pilot) worked out from a performance point of view whether LCY was possibly for Saab340B.
The answer was YES, but restricted to 18 passengers.
Not considered viable from the commercial point of view.
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 15:41
  #774 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by BAladdy View Post
Loganair have today announced 6 new routes:

Aberdeen to Brussels - Will operate 4 x weekly from 28th October, flights will operate via Newcastle
Aberdeen to East Midlands - Will operate 6 x weekly from 24th February 2020
Aberdeen to Haugesund - Will operate 6 x weekly from 24th February 2020
Glasgow to Cardiff - Will operate Daily from 27th February 2020
Newcastle to Bergen - Begins 26th April 2020
Newcastle to Guernsey - Begins 23rd May 2020

https://www.insider.co.uk/news/logan...vices-19911015


Loganair need to consider Carlisle to Isle of Man, and Jersey as S20 routes. Worked well in the past.
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 16:46
  #775 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by parkfell View Post

Loganair need to consider Carlisle to Isle of Man, and Jersey as S20 routes. Worked well in the past.
Theyre core initial routes haven't exactly gone gangbusters never mind a host of new ones....
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Old 17th Sep 2019, 19:45
  #776 (permalink)  
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initial new ATR routes apparently announced but can't seem to find them...
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Old 17th Sep 2019, 21:28
  #777 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VickersVicount View Post
initial new ATR routes apparently announced but can't seem to find them...
Looking at the schedule I have found the following routes showing ATR ops for next summer

Aberdeen to Kirkwall - ATR to operate 7 of the 18 weekly flights from 29th March
Aberdeen to Sumburgh - ATR to operate 4 of the 26 weekly flights from 29th March
Edinburgh to Kirkwall - ATR to operate 11 of the 20 weekly flights from 29th March
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 07:09
  #778 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAladdy View Post

Looking at the schedule I have found the following routes showing ATR ops for next summer

Aberdeen to Kirkwall - ATR to operate 7 of the 18 weekly flights from 29th March
Aberdeen to Sumburgh - ATR to operate 4 of the 26 weekly flights from 29th March
Edinburgh to Kirkwall - ATR to operate 11 of the 20 weekly flights from 29th March
it looks like GLA-BEB is upgrading to an ERJ on Friday mornings from April too. Wonder what its doing at 7am Mon-Thurs
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Old 19th Sep 2019, 13:15
  #779 (permalink)  
 
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Loganair have just announced 2x new routes from East Midlands to Edinburgh & Glasgow. Both routes are up against Flybe competition with flights commencing from October 27th, 2019
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Old 19th Sep 2019, 13:17
  #780 (permalink)  
 
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Flybe are ending both Edinburgh-East Midlands and Glasgow-East midlands.
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