Aurigny Air Services-2

[virginblue]

Originally Posted by GCILover

I can see Flybe/Virgin whatever they will be called re-start the MAN at some point to link in to Virgin long haul..

How many daily long-haul passengers can an island of 65.000 generate? Realistically, not enough to make a P2P-route worthwhile, given that you need at least two daily flights as otherwise those connecting need to overnight at least once at the transit airport.

[kcockayne]

Originally Posted by virginblue

How many daily long-haul passengers can an island of 65.000 generate? Realistically, not enough to make a P2P-route worthwhile, given that you need at least two daily flights as otherwise those connecting need to overnight at least once at the transit airport.

In reality, VB, that is what a lot of us do - both here in Jersey & in Guernsey. We overnight in Gatwick (usually). In our case, that is even so regardless of the fact that we have 8 daily A319/320s to Gatwick. It is not just due to the lack of good connections, but also to allow for fog disruption in the islands. In fact, I am doing this today - but taking a chance on the weather for my return connection Palma-Gatwick-Jersey.
Aeromad is totally correct in his observations, as are the other contributors. Guernsey people have to be realistic about what they can expect; & the “Runway Extenders” also need to get real. If the runway is extended, at a cost of £10m+, you may get EZY etc. in, you may get bigger aircraft ( I would not argue that there is scope for charters with A320/B737 etc) operating the occasional charter; but what you definitely WILL get in the case of EZY to Gatwick, or RYR to Stansted , is the demise of AUR.

[TartinTon]

Surely you're looking at this the wrong way round? Guernsey should be marketing destination Guernsey, surely? With European holidays becoming more and more expensive there is probably going to be a once in a generation opportunity for destinations like Guernsey to fill their boots as long as they are prepared to invest in the resources/marketing/infrastructure to service an influx of inbound tourism. Part of that will be runways that can take A220/319/320/B737 aircraft. Unfortunately GR have proven themselves not fit for purpose despite some protectionism so let them go and let someone more efficient take over. Lost jobs will quickly be replaced with some imagination from the Guernsey state.

[kcockayne]

Yes, you are correct in what you say, but the reason that the States Of Guernsey bought AUR in the first place was to protect the Gatwick slots. They could decide to sell the airline- if anyone would buy it - or they could close it down. But that would mean that the slots were vulnerable, or lost. There is no guarantee that EZY would protect the slots for them. They would also be writing off over £20m that they have invested in the airline’s losses over the years. They have also guaranteed over £60m which AUR have borrowed to finance the purchase their new ATRs. It would be a very bold decision to pull the plug on AUR, with no surety of a secure Gatwick service from whoever would then provide it.
The other part of what you suggest, although possible, is not as easy as you think. Over the years there has been a loss of many hotel beds. I fear that the remaining bed stock is far from the level required to support the sort of activity that you recommend. Some very important, & complex decisions need to be made. For my part, I think that the States will take the path of least resistance & continue to support AUR financially, fail to extend the runway & generally meander on along the same old path. Why ? Because the Channel Islands are no longer “ money machines “, & cannot throw it around as they did in the past. Nor can they take the risk of spending tens of millions on the airport , losing AUR (because it cannot compete with EZY, for example), & then losing EZY (& the slots) if that airline were to decide that those slots were better value if used on more lucrative routes.

[TartinTon]

There are ways and means of protecting slots by offering out PSO routes and stipulating airports/frequencies. Look at NQY...no-one would have thought a few years ago that they would be operating in and out of LHR but there they are. The airlines losses are growing year on year with nothing on the horizon to save them. Best to let it go having done the required legwork in the mean time to secure services on a risk-shared PSO basis as so many other airports have done. It's not rocket science but it does require some vision and growing a pair from the authorities.

[aurigny72]

Had email from Aurigny today stating that their Summer 2020 flights to Jersey and Southampton are now available to book, also that these routes will be operated by their new ATR-600s. If that is the case has the lease on their ATR-42 HUET expired or will have by then?. They also stated that Bristol, East midlands, Norwich, Manchester and Leeds/Bradford would be available to book next week but no mention of Stansted, is this a oversight i wonder or are they going to chop this route as rumours have suggested a while ago, anyone know?

[Jerbourg]

HUET is due to leave the fleet by March 2020 according to Jethros.

[welkyboy]

Rumour has it that G- HUET is moving to Loganair shortly and Blue Islands will be training the Logan pilots!

[KindaUnstuck]

Originally Posted by aurigny72

Had email from Aurigny today stating that their Summer 2020 flights to Jersey and Southampton are now available to book, also that these routes will be operated by their new ATR-600s. If that is the case has the lease on their ATR-42 HUET expired or will have by then?. They also stated that Bristol, East midlands, Norwich, Manchester and Leeds/Bradford would be available to book next week but no mention of Stansted, is this a oversight i wonder or are they going to chop this route as rumours have suggested a while ago, anyone know?

Don't have any insight but the ATR Gatwick flights have not been loaded yet (only the Embraer ones).Considering Gatwick self-handling has a big gap between the GR605 departure at 11.55 and the GR606 arriving at 15.45ish (can't remember the time off the top of my head) I wonder if Stansted could be replaced by a midday LGW rotation with a bit of shuffling on the ATR services and timings.

[aurigny72]

Originally Posted by KindaUnstuck

Don't have any insight but the ATR Gatwick flights have not been loaded yet (only the Embraer ones).Considering Gatwick self-handling has a big gap between the GR605 departure at 11.55 and the GR606 arriving at 15.45ish (can't remember the time off the top of my head) I wonder if Stansted could be replaced by a midday LGW rotation with a bit of shuffling on the ATR services and timings.

I looked at the LGW flights for various dates in May and was a bit surprised to see only the four Embraer flights loaded but also was confused to see that the flight times advertised returning from LGW to GCI were much longer than the flight times for GCI to LGW, i know they are block to block times but even allowing for a busy LGW the four different returning schedules varied from one hour I0 mins to one hour 25 mins?. I would expect the additional ATR flights will be added soon.

[Hermite]

There are a few negative comments floating around on Aurigny's facebook page following the late running and cancellation of Gatwick flights yesterday due to a passenger's illness. He required oxygen resulting in the need to replace an oxygen bottle on the Embraer before it could take off. One was shipped in from Guernsey on an ATR, which was itself delayed due to the required paperwork for carrying the bottle (dangerous cargo). Various people are asking why Aurigny weren't better prepared for such a basic situation and also why there wasn't a supply of oxygen bottles in Gatwick. Any thoughts on the operational aspects of this situation?

[Albert Hall]

It really all depends on whether the passenger had pre-notified their requirement.

[Hermite]

Originally Posted by Albert Hall

It really all depends on whether the passenger had pre-notified their requirement.

I'm not sure that you can expect someone to prenotify a requirement for a medical emergency.

[KindaUnstuck]

I was on the GR610 last night and spent most the evening sat by the Customer Services desk in the Guernsey Departure Lounge as public announcements were not that great and updates were not always given, even if it was just a message saying we are still waiting for news etc. Icould hear what the ground staff were saying between themselves and what was being said on their radios. To be fair to the ground staff they didn't know much more than I could work out from what they were saying and flight radar and if anyone asked them they were pretty much telling them everything they knew.

The GR608 was sat fully loaded with with passengers for 3 hours before they were able to leave with the oxygen, pretty much as soon as she left the ground crew were saying the Gr610 would definitely be going at around 9.30 and that although Aurigny had said the Gr611 would operate they weren't so sure as they didn't think it would make it in time.

They were also given 15 minutes to turn the Embraer round in Guernsey which was never going to happen and it took 45 even though we were all lined up and ready to go. From what I understand as soon as we were offloaded in Gatwick at 10.55 they loaded the GR611 and then had to cancel the flight as they were not going to get back in time.

When the pilot did his message onboard he mentioned that 'amazingly there didn't seem to be any oxygen in Gatwick' which is why the Gr608 was also delayed and although the crew were trying to be descreet there was also a 'in the past this wouldn't have happened, we would have had a stand in aircraft ages ago' spoken between them.

Also, I don't know if it had any impact but COBO was down to do last night's Jersey and Southampton services but she had to be swapped out for HUET after the Jersey run due to technical issue and then some 610 passengers were questioning why the Manchester and Southampton aircraft weren't being used once they returned for the night rather than us waiting for the Embraer but to be fair even after a few passengers offloaded themselves to swap to today instead there were still 117 passengers onboard.

I got slapped with an £88 fine as the car hire company stayed open until I got there which as far as I'm concerned is annoying but the main thing is that hopefully the male passenger is ok, others however we're complaining about missed trains and wanting Aurigny to put them up once they got to Gatwick or pay for taxis so no doubt Customer Services will have had a few calls today.

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[rog747]

Was this a medical emergency, or a pre-booked OXY requirement?
I cannot get my head round this debacle lol

Why was the ill passenger (or did he just have required Oxygen for his flight LGW-GCI) not offloaded at LGW - ?

Surely if he was not well he should have been offloaded then medical attention should've been sought -
Or if he was just needing OXY for the flight and AUR had failed to supply it then just take him off the flight, and look after him until he can be flown to GCI in due course...

All sounds quite lubricious to cock up the whole operation for hours then actually cancel a flight full of pax. You cannot make it up!

[SWBKCB]

What were the circumstances? Maybe pax became ill en-route and then required oxygen?

[Jerbourg]

Originally Posted by Hermite

There are a few negative comments floating around on Aurigny's facebook page following the late running and cancellation of Gatwick flights yesterday due to a passenger's illness. He required oxygen resulting in the need to replace an oxygen bottle on the Embraer before it could take off. One was shipped in from Guernsey on an ATR, which was itself delayed due to the required paperwork for carrying the bottle (dangerous cargo). Various people are asking why Aurigny weren't better prepared for such a basic situation and also why there wasn't a supply of oxygen bottles in Gatwick. Any thoughts on the operational aspects of this situation?

Aurigny don't seem to have a plan should anything happen to it's aircraft away from GCI, surely there must be a company at LGW that could have supplied a replacement oxygen cylinder without one having to be flown in from GCI? It's the same when an a/c goes tech away from base, more often than not a GCI based engineer is flown out to the stricken aircraft - sometimes in a Dornier rather than on a scheduled service - how much does that cost the taxpayer I wonder - it's time line engineering contracts were signed at their main destinations.

[KindaUnstuck]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

What were the circumstances? Maybe pax became ill en-route and then required oxygen?

yes, from what was said to us it was an onboard medical emergency on the way into LGW.

[commit aviation]

Assuming it was a medical emergency and the oxygen bottle was used then it would need to be replaced prior to the next sector. I would expect it is an MEL item in case there was another issue on the next flight.

[GCILover]

Any idea why Aurigny schedule some ridiculous times for some of their flights. Some of the LGW flights are scheduled at 90 mins, with some of the SOU-GCI at 55 mins. I don't think with any amount of taxiing / holding either route would take that amount of time. I can only see it as their way of improving their OTP to make it look better. Some of the flights are getting in 30-40 minutes early on a flight that only takes that long.