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Gatwick-2

Old 25th Aug 2020, 10:13
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Originally Posted by JSCL
I think BA might be happy with that to be honest if they can offload their slots to Wizz and consolidate entirely in to Heathrow.
I think IAG would be more happy if they could be used within the group. Coming out of this crisis, maybe in a year to two - BA would likely outgrow LHR very quickly, and relinquishing those slots at LGW would leave them with few options.
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 10:16
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Originally Posted by toledoashley
I think IAG would be more happy if they could be used within the group. Coming out of this crisis, maybe in a year to two - BA would likely outgrow LHR very quickly, and relinquishing those slots at LGW would leave them with few options.
Possibly. But this crisis and its impact on cash is far worse than 9/11 was.

IAG isn't all about London. They may be happy to see BA doing what it does best at LHR, bring Vueling in to some of the LGW slots and offload a bunch more. I think in a new world, IAG may focus more on EI and Vueling expansion where there is actually scope to expand.
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 10:27
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Originally Posted by toledoashley
BA would likely outgrow LHR very quickly, and relinquishing those slots at LGW would leave them with few options.
However by sitting on the slots and leaving them un used, they are aiding in the airports demise - without pax through the terminal the airport must be hemorrhaging money and the likes of Virgin and BA who are unwilling to allow other operators use their slots (somewhat understandably from a competition point of view) are going to cost people their jobs.
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 12:32
  #1084 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JSCL
IAG isn't all about London. They may be happy to see BA doing what it does best at LHR, bring Vueling in to some of the LGW slots and offload a bunch more. I think in a new world, IAG may focus more on EI and Vueling expansion where there is actually scope to expand.
There is an obsession with Vueling or LEVEL at LGW. It makes no sense with ground handling outsourced and cabin crew on 'industry standard' T&C's. Other than lounge access and fast track for a few Slivers and Gold BA have very comparable costs to any other branch of IAG. BA seem to think this is viable just for their 777 operation, so additional usage by short-haul passengers is fairly small. What Vueling, Aer Lingus or LEVEL do not have is an established brand that works well in the London area. BA golds would also be able to access the BA lounges if travelling on Vueling or Aer Lingus anyway. I think BA have a slight cost disadvantage at LGW compared to other airlines, but they seem to command a revenue premium too.

I doubt IAG will be too keen to let Wizz get a foot in the door at LGW, I would have thought they learned their lesson from easyJet in 2001.
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 12:38
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Why would any airline or business want to put themselves in a position of being permanently smaller in the future and have very limited options for growth? To do so to me seems like madness.
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 12:45
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BA senior management have to ask themselves - how long will Covid last, and how much will they lose by flying aircraft that are partly empty. Then ask how much profit BA would make over 10 normal years by flying the same number of aircraft at Gatwick
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 12:47
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Originally Posted by True Blue
Why would any airline or business want to put themselves in a position of being permanently smaller in the future and have very limited options for growth? To do so to me seems like madness.
But my point is still the same in that IAG is a group of airlines, not just BA. Someone is going to have to calculate where they can play strongly in the coming years, with multiple scenarios;

1) Keep holding on until the EU comes back on the 80/20 and then we will have to ramp schedules back up at the risk of huge losses?

2) Do we offload/lease out some of the slot portfolio at Gatwick to another airline, admitting they may be coming in our previous territory but that is just how our 'new BA' will look?

3) Do we refocus how Gatwick works on P2P leisure only, trim away the business-commanding routes back to Heathrow. Increase our long haul and short/med-haul leisure, sacrificing some slots at the same time as a means of raising cash?

This is not as simple and clean cut as many seem to think. If BA/IAG see an opportunity to consolidate Gatwick and raise capital by means of sale or leasing of slots, then I believe they will do that.
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 12:57
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I think we are losing sight of what slots were originally for - if the airport is running at less than capacity and there is another customer who can't access the airport because of slot blocking, I think it will be a case of use it or lose it rather then do we hold or do we sell.
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 16:00
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There's so many possible outcomes it's near impossible to predict how things will pan out. I don't beleive it's a case of IAG having to sell slots to another carrier. There will come a point they'll have to release them if they don't use them. Holding on to them while they can makes perfect sense for now, but when crunch time comes they're not likely to operate them for the sake of keeping a foothold in LGW. Not wanting to pre-empt bad news by any means, but if Virgin for example were to fail, BA will do surely what ever it takes to get hold of their LHR slots, which would completely alter their position where LGW is concerned.

Wizz are hell bent on gameplay at the moment. I can honestly say that nobody has ever been as vocal about such a large scale expansion, where normally such extensive commercial terms on volumes amongst all else under strict confidentiality would exist. Their single aircraft base is probably little more than a sign of intent on what they want to acheive at LGW. I'd be surprised if RYR were not watching with the same level of intent, especially as a reaction to Wizz if for nothing else, about growth prospects at LGW while being maybe a little less outspoken about it.

You also have to consider from LGW's perspective, will they really want Wizz as a long-term strategic player? On the whole I'd think so with the likes of Norwegian on very thin ice, the prospect of a BA withdrawal and the loss already of Thomas Cook and Virgin, LGW are not in a position to be fussy, and I don't think low-cost long-haul would be off the table for Wizz eventually. That said, Wizz will no doubt demand a pittance in costs and commercial terms with what the aforementioned operators are, or were previously, willing to pay. Yet again LGW would be well aware of the prospect in possibly losing their business to LTN/STN/SEN at the best, nevermind the worst of times.
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 19:56
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Wizz @ Gatwick

Selecting Athens as a new route from Gatwick is a clear statement of intent against the easyJet. The other routes though easyJet markets/routes are not as notable as one of the airline's longest standing destinations ...

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Old 26th Aug 2020, 20:19
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Originally Posted by EI-BUD
Selecting Athens as a new route from Gatwick is a clear statement of intent against the easyJet. The other routes though easyJet markets/routes are not as notable as one of the airline's longest standing destinations ...
easyJet have obviously been spooked and are aiming to retaliate with frequency increases on all 4 routes launched by Wizz. It seems attack is seen as the best form of defence. With greater competition the customer might benefit in the short term. It'll be interesting to see whether either company actually makes money on the routes in the long-term.
https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/...ovid-measures/
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 21:07
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Exactly what they did in Luton, the first flights back after the COVID hibernation were all in direct competition with Wizzair, including that all important TLV route (with Israel’s borders essentially closed at the time, and Israel on the UK’s quarantine list).

I think easy need to learn pretty sharpish that Wizz aren’t just going to go away, before they fritter away even more money.

As for the Wizz vs BA debate. Both offer pretty much the same service on the same aircraft (I believe some of BA’s Gatwick fleet are actually ex-Wizz), Wizz just do it at half the price. The airport would far rather an airline that’s going to use the slots than one that’ll hold on for as long as possible, doing as little as possible.

600 jobs going at Gatwick. A big Wizz expansion would be welcome by all.
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 00:04
  #1093 (permalink)  
 
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Wizz aren’t THAT cheap, BA prices are often cheaper than easyJet at LGW.
Beggars can’t be choosers, with Norwegian likely gone or greatly diminished LGW needs the next big thing.
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 07:58
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BA

I echo the comments others have made- it is desperately sad seeing how hard LGW has been hit by this crisis, I really feel for all the airport teams, ground staff and crew here that like many of us, are now facing uncertain futures. I hope that LGW will be able to recover quickly once the worst of this pandemic has passed- Gatwick had been doing very well prior to COVID, and I just hope that it will be able to attract it's airlines back and diversify beyond LCCs, particularly full service and long haul. On BA- the latest update from Airline Route and the BA booking engine stipulates short haul is scheduled to resume from the 9th November onwards. My guess is that it is only a matter of time before BA issue a definitive decision as to whether or not short haul will be resuming this year, or indeed, at all.
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 08:21
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Yes,BA and their indecision about their short haul here has sadly not helped matters at all,nor VS pulling out from here and Norwegian with all their troubles ...I personally think this flip flopping around over who is in or who is out ,on the Air Corridors list, has caused even more damage and was the final nail in the coffin before announcement was made yesterday.
Really hope LGW can bounce back quickly and no more jobs are lost
Has been a joy to watch the QR cargo flights over the last 10 days ,does everything have to centre around LHR ?

Thinking of those that have lost their jobs ..it is really sad when this happens 😥
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 08:29
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Originally Posted by Charley B
Yes,BA and their indecision about their short haul here has sadly not helped matters at all,nor VS pulling out from here and Norwegian with all their troubles ...I personally think this flip flopping around over who is in or who is out ,on the Air Corridors list, has caused even more damage and was the final nail in the coffin before announcement was made yesterday.
Really hope LGW can bounce back quickly and no more jobs are lost
Has been a joy to watch the QR cargo flights over the last 10 days ,does everything have to centre around LHR ?

Thinking of those that have lost their jobs ..it is really sad when this happens 😥
Well said Charley B! I couldn't agree with you more. This tip-toeing by the likes of BA and VS has caused a lot of damage to LGW, and yet, despite this, and the jobs that have been lost, both seem happy to keep LGW and staff in limbo by holding onto their slots with no certainty whether they will return to use them. Like you, and many others, I do hope that LGW's brightest days are ahead of it, LHR should not have to be the "be all end all" for everyone, and I hope that full service carriers such as QR, EK, CX, CA etc will remain at LGW and not abandon it indefinitely.
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 08:39
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Fab post JW 95 ....yes..sad times..two of my friends, one is a neighbour have lost their jobs with BA ...and my friend at LHR has been with them as cabin crew 33 years,she started at LGW on the DC10 ...
QR has canx a couple of the pax flights since restarting on the 20th ,todays is due to arrive thankfully
Can’t wait for EK to restart ..this should help with the jobs situation too.
When only FR and the Belarus’flight from Minsk were going down the approach during lockdown each day for a long while ,it was obvious this would have a big impact..the RAF Ascot training flights were a joy to see though ,wish they would reappear x
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 09:27
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Surely the indecision is down to the public - the airlines are listing flights but pulling them when it becomes apparent that loads will be uneconomic. Nobody knows when demand will recover, the experts are guessing.
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 12:11
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Aurigny are in talks to start flights to Isle of Man.
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 12:33
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Lgw is suffering from the herd mentality amongst airlines. One moves to Lhr for a few flights, they all have to move. If the slot rules are not relaxed by the winter season, many if not all of them will have to return to Lgw. So what was the point for a few flights? Lgw is also suffering from a cautious approach from Ezy to restarting flights. They may need to show a bit more commitment.

And remember, these higher yields from Lhr = higher fares for the paying pax. As long as Lhr and the airlines can keep Lgw from any success in long-haul routes, they can all benefit from higher fares and changes.
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