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Gatwick-2

Old 27th Sep 2018, 20:59
  #421 (permalink)  
 
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Qatar airways From LGW

This might already have been said, but it appears Qatar Airways are continuing LGW/DOH throughout the winter. 3 Daily 0810, 1405, 2030, all code share with BA. Wonder what it is doing to Emirates share of the market?
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Old 27th Sep 2018, 21:14
  #422 (permalink)  
 
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Very little id wager going by effects that QR have had on EK in other cities. More likely to pull from other Oneworlders
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 20:22
  #423 (permalink)  
 
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Isn't QR only double daily instead of trice?
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 23:38
  #424 (permalink)  
 
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I think it goes 3 daily on 2 days per week from the start of the winter season.
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Old 14th Oct 2018, 22:46
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Seems that Gatwick have big plans for their emergency runway. Now I always thought it was too close to the existing runway for parallel use.
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Old 14th Oct 2018, 23:21
  #426 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
Seems that Gatwick have big plans for their emergency runway. Now I always thought it was too close to the existing runway for parallel use.
It is. They're just kite-flying.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 08:36
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I don't fully agree. The emergency runway is not too close to the main runway for parallel use - it is too close for simultaneous use. The biggest problem with the emergency runway is that it is too close to the parallel taxiway - you cannot have an aircraft landing or departing on 26R/08L when another aircraft is using the parallel taxiway. If a new taxiway was built, giving adequate separation, I think the use of the emergency r/w could allow a worthwhile increase in movements. Of course it is also being reported that GIP may sell part or all of its investment in LGW and any plan to increase movements would ramp the price.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 09:36
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Originally Posted by willy wombat View Post
The biggest problem with the emergency runway is that it is too close to the parallel taxiway - you cannot have an aircraft landing or departing on 26R/08L when another aircraft is using the parallel taxiway.
Without wishing to nit-pick, I believe this is incorrect. There is a wingspan restriction below which permits use of the second runway and taxiway Juliet simultaneously. Then again itís been a while since I saw the local Gatwick regs.

Interesting propisal to use the main and the northern together however. Place your bets on who blinks first - the CAA or GAL....
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 11:12
  #429 (permalink)  
 
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It seems just a piecemeal proposal when what LGW really needs is a properly spaced second runway to allow simultaneous parallel operations. The only way it would work would be to build a new taxiway on the south side to allow traffic landing on 26L to vacate left whilst another aircraft takes off from 26R.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 11:43
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Packer 27L - I will bow to your superior knowledge - it has also been a long time since I saw the LGW local regs. Fact remains 'though that the parallel taxiway remains a problem.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 16:12
  #431 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Packer27L View Post
Interesting proposal to use the main and the northern together however. Place your bets on who blinks first - the CAA or GAL....
It's a bit of an exaggeration to describe a throwaway remark at last November's meeting of GATCOM as a "proposal":

"In response to a question raised by the environmental and amenity groupsí representative, Mr Wingate advised that as part of GALís review of its airport master plan, GAL would be looking at the capability of Gatwickís main runway and the northern (Maintenance/Emergency) runway before looking at a new runway over the coming months. GATCOM was reminded that the 1979 legal agreement, which prohibited the concurrent use of the emergency runway, expired in 2019."
Minutes of the meeting of the Gatwick Airport Consultative Committee held on 9 November 2017 at Gatwick Airport
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 16:39
  #432 (permalink)  
 
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Gatwick Airport second runway 'by the back door'
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 11:36
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I don't know how serious the proposal to use the "emergency runway" in addition to the main is, but I cannot see any possibility of it ever being used simultaneously. It surely is too close to the main & it is too close to the taxiway. Even if they were both to be used simultaneously, how would a/c get to & from the main runway without crossing the "emergency runway" ? Surely this would remove any extra capacity expected to be generated by the use of the "emergency runway". Similar problems would also be caused by the proximity of the taxiway.
The CAA have a good record of abandoning long standing safety regulations to accommodate the commercial needs of operators & ATC, but I cannot see it countenancing this half baked suggestion.
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 15:04
  #434 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kcockayne View Post
I don't know how serious the proposal to use the "emergency runway" in addition to the main is, but I cannot see any possibility of it ever being used simultaneously. It surely is too close to the main & it is too close to the taxiway. Even if they were both to be used simultaneously, how would a/c get to & from the main runway without crossing the "emergency runway" ? Surely this would remove any extra capacity expected to be generated by the use of the "emergency runway". Similar problems would also be caused by the proximity of the taxiway.
The CAA have a good record of abandoning long standing safety regulations to accommodate the commercial needs of operators & ATC, but I cannot see it countenancing this half baked suggestion.
I don't think simultaneous use is possible, but they could still be used in sync.

I.E. One plane lands on the main runway, while another begins it's take off roll on the shorter runway. Once the aircraft is airborne, the landing aircraft will have slowed enough and will be able to exit and cross the second runway while another plane positions to take off and a 3rd plane is landing on the main runway. Repeat ad Infinitum.
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 16:59
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Originally Posted by edi_local View Post
I don't think simultaneous use is possible, but they could still be used in sync.

I.E. One plane lands on the main runway, while another begins it's take off roll on the shorter runway. Once the aircraft is airborne, the landing aircraft will have slowed enough and will be able to exit and cross the second runway while another plane positions to take off and a 3rd plane is landing on the main runway. Repeat ad Infinitum.
Out of interest, do you still envisage the main runway being used for departures (as well as arrivals) ?

If so, things have just got a lot more complicated than you describe.

If not, then you have reduced the movement capacity of the main runway at a stroke, probably by an amount not far short of the extra capacity that the shorter runway would provide.

"Simple" solutions rarely are.
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 18:00
  #436 (permalink)  
 
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It could practically be operated as EDI says. I suspect this is probably a peak hour operation only (SH departures on 26R) while 26L remains for LH and arrivals. You can always switch to single runway when things are quiet
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 18:23
  #437 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gulf Julliet Papa View Post
I suspect this is probably a peak hour operation only
220 extra movements per day (80,000 pa), obviously split equally between arrivals and departures, would suggest not.
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 18:47
  #438 (permalink)  
 
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I think to operate both runways simultaneously they need 210m minimum distance between centrelines and this is for visual operations.(ICAO). If they were to move the N runway centreline slightly north by around 15m then it may be possible. Taxiway J centreline would also need to move north to ensure taxiway to runway centreline minimum distance applies. Having said all this there are many safety issues to be considered if these distances were applied.
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Old 18th Oct 2018, 10:36
  #439 (permalink)  
 
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Draft Masterplan here

https://www.gatwickairport.com/globa...plan-final.pdf
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Old 18th Oct 2018, 14:16
  #440 (permalink)  
 
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Quite interesting that they are considering widening the emergency runway so they can achieve the full 210m separation from the main runway. I haven't ploughed through most of the document - is there any mention of a new parallel taxiway?
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