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Waves

Old 25th Sep 2017, 18:11
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Waves

So it looks like the Channel Islands now officially has a new airline. Many will be watching with a keen eye, not least Aurigny and Blue Islands.
https://guernseypress.com/top-storie...ators-licence/
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 07:13
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Excellent news, one of the first new European operators to take advantage of last year's clearance for the commercial use of single-engined turboprops like the Cessna Caravan, after the north Americans have been using them commercially for 20 years. Perfect aircraft for these niche little hops between islands, but will be interested to see whether they extend beyond the Channel Islands to mainland UK or France. Good luck to them. Need more entrepreneurial outfits like this to latch on to the new Single-Engined Turboprop opportunities there are out there. Point of note though, if Guernsey is not in UK, not part of EU, how do the freedoms of the air apply to 2-REG aircraft on Guernsey AOCs?
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 07:25
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Good question. I think we will find the mustard cuts two ways. You need to have a licence to operate into the Channel Islands so it is quite reasonable to expect your destination to operate to the same restructions.

Brilliant to see turbo prop singles flying commercially. There are so many routes where this makes sense.
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 09:17
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Couldn't pay me enough money to get in a single engined 'commercial' a/c over open water.
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 10:29
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Originally Posted by planedrive View Post
Couldn't pay me enough money to get in a single engined 'commercial' a/c over open water.
And there's the interesting twist to this new market in Europe - what will the market acceptance be like? In the US, the likes of Surfair have no problems whizzing passengers around California in SET (PC-XII) aircraft, albeit, admittedly, none of that is over water.

In Europe the engine/air frame reliability data to convince EASA that they were comfortable enough to let commercial single-engined operations go-ahead were pretty stringent. If you are not happy to fly in something that's had less than one in-flight shutdown in 10 million hours, how many million would you be comfortable with?! Some might take the stance that they'll fly themselves, but not their whole family, or say a whole board of directors on the same flight.

These will fly with two crew but other operations will be able to fly single crew too - one engine, one pilot, that will negate a chunk of the prospective user base going for the fights, but others won't give two hoots if its good value and really convenient.
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 12:16
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Finistair is one company in Europe already operating a Cessna Caravan on scheduled services.. Twice daily since Summer 2016 between Brest and Ouessant.
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 13:33
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They use them in Hawaii as well, with single pilot. Unfortunately that one in 10 million hour shutdown ended in 1 fatality.

ASN Aircraft accident Cessna 208B Grand Caravan N687MA Kalaupapa Airport, HI (LUP)

I'm perfectly happy with the reliability of the engine, I just like there to be a second one to keep me going if I should be unlucky enough to be the 10 millionth hour over open water. Over land is a different matter as there are a myriad of places to put down. For now, I think I'll stick with the established AOC holders operating around the islands.
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 13:51
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LOL ... Single engine across water and in gale force fog ... At least the Trislanders had 3 engines and everything else has 2!
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 14:12
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Can see some competition for Skybus on the Isles of Scilly run with Caravans now, a number of IOM routes, hops over to Ireland, any of the Channel Islands back to southern mainland UK or into northern France - all across water. New EASA rules though dictate you must be 15 minutes gliding distance from a safe landing site usable in all probable weather situations along the route on a given day.

They can be fitted with floats of course.....
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 15:49
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At least the Trislanders had 3 engines
But could it maintain altitude on 2 with a full load? I can't imagine they were particularly powerful. Just asking.
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 17:02
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How many inter island flights have Waves operated, so far ?
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 17:31
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Waves

Great title until the one and only horse starts to cough, then we all end up in the waves! But then of course that was was the response when twin engine ops were begun across the oceans. Onwards and upwards.
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 19:52
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Kcockayne,
They got their AOC yesterday and have not yet started ops.
Pete
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 19:57
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Thanks for that, Pete. I am curious to see how they get on.
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 20:34
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Aurigny/Skybus/Loganair/Hebridean have operated the Islander/Trislanders with single crews for decades. Not sure what the human failure rate is per 10m hours though.
In the end if the single engine fails, a professional pilot has quite a few options. If a single crew fails, the passengers can only look on with ringside seats.
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 20:44
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Originally Posted by Hotel Tango View Post
But could it maintain altitude on 2 with a full load? I can't imagine they were particularly powerful. Just asking.
And what is a Caravan likely to do if it loses an engine?
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 21:19
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@V12 - As a professional pilot, If the single engine of my single engine aircraft fails over the open water I have only one option as far as I'm aware. I'm going swimming. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to the other multiple options I've missed??

I have no problem at all with single crew ops. The Trislander guys down in the islands and up in the hebrides have my utmost respect and are some of the best in the business in my opinion.
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Old 27th Sep 2017, 06:30
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Re: Trislanders
Originally Posted by Hotel Tango View Post
But could it maintain altitude on 2 with a full load? I can't imagine they were particularly powerful. Just asking.
Not when the failed propellor fails to feather, which seems quite common:

G-AZLJ:
"Despite selecting maximum power on the remaining two engines, the aircraft gradually lost height at about 100 to. 200 feet per minute"
https://assets.publishing.service.go...pdf_501928.pdf
G-BDTO
"The aircraft was unable to maintain altitude, despite having full power on the remaining two engines"
https://assets.publishing.service.go...BDTO_04-13.pdf
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Old 27th Sep 2017, 07:32
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I worked for Brymon when a fully loaded PLH/LHR Twotter lost an engine, couldn't maintain altitude, and did a dirty dive in to Odiham ... But at least with a 2nd engine it made it to Odiham!
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Old 27th Sep 2017, 08:18
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Not to say that it cannot ever happen, but I worked in Jersey ATC for 30 years & I cannot remember an engine failure inter island. Famous last words ! I was very dubious about ETOPS. Again, my doubts have not been upheld. Yet ! There again, one engine out on a Cessna 208 & you are in the drink. Especially at the inter island level of 2000 feet. Still, you might be within a couple of miles of the aerodrome when it happens !
Keep your fingers crossed.
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