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Old 8th Oct 2018, 20:02
  #241 (permalink)  
 
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BFS has 58,000 aircraft movements per year.

BHD has 36,000 per year.

LDY has 2,000 per year.

The airport is handling half the passengers it did 10 years ago. The problem however is not caused by lack of passengers but by lack of flights. If more flights operated, there would be more passengers.

Ryanair operated successfully at the airport for years. Stansted operated for 18 years, Alicante for 9 years. Ryanair did not lose money otherwise they would have pulled the plug. When they finally did, it was due to relocating to BFS not due to LDY itself.
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Old 9th Oct 2018, 13:45
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Originally Posted by Amelia Earhart
The problem however is not caused by lack of passengers but by lack of flights. If more flights operated, there would be more passengers.
I understand what you're saying, but couldn't that be said about all or most airports? Isn't the key question for an airline with additional spare aircraft capacity (and therefore the opportunity to provide "more flights"): is a route to LDY likely to be more profitable than any of the alternatives?

Originally Posted by Amelia Earhart
Ryanair operated successfully at the airport for years. Stansted operated for 18 years, Alicante for 9 years. Ryanair did not lose money otherwise they would have pulled the plug. When they finally did, it was due to relocating to BFS not due to LDY itself.
Again, isn't this a case of "we're not losing money, but we reckon now that we could make more money by relocating our aircraft to another airport"?

This is the conundrum that so many smaller airports face. Whereas once upon a time there would have been a "local" carrier with some local loyalty, or else an airline would have decided "we want to serve Northern Ireland, now let's think about which airport we want to use", these days most of the airlines are (of necessity) more agnostic - they fly wherever they can make the most money (which I suppose is understandable behaviour for private companies) so the competition for a service by Airline X is no longer just the neighbouring airports but also airports on the other side of Europe (so Ryanair might say "with this aircraft in Alicante we can fly to LDY or to (say) Kaunas or to Ancona or to Memmingen - and LDY is not the most profitable, so too bad...").

C.
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 14:13
  #243 (permalink)  
 
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FR still haven’t loaded EDI for summer 19 yet. Hopefully it’s not dropped already and they will add it soon.
On another note it seems GLA is doing pretty well with selected dates showing as sold out. Granted these are days using the Saab 340, but still nice to see the service being used well. Do Loganair have any spare Saab 2000 capacity that could be utilised on these days?
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 14:19
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Doesn’t bode well for EDI. Looks like most of the other routes from EDI have been loaded. Still, it’s Ryanair. What do we expect?
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 14:32
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Wouldn’t shock me to see them back on STN if they could get some of the proposed Stormont monies. As you say, it is Ryanair, expect anything.
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 14:38
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Ha! You could just imagine the scene. After years of profitable operation on the STN route they return because of PSO funding.
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 15:18
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Originally Posted by speedbirdATC
FR still haven’t loaded EDI for summer 19 yet. Hopefully it’s not dropped already and they will add it soon.
On another note it seems GLA is doing pretty well with selected dates showing as sold out. Granted these are days using the Saab 340, but still nice to see the service being used well. Do Loganair have any spare Saab 2000 capacity that could be utilised on these days?
FR seem to be evaluating all the routes that were added to EDI from GLA as atleast a few days ago none of the routes that were moved had been added. Loganair don’t seem to have much spare 2000 capacity, especially now with the CFE IOM agreement. It would be nice to see alongside the Sunday service.
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 15:49
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Originally Posted by cuthere
Ha! You could just imagine the scene. After years of profitable operation on the STN route they return because of PSO funding.
Can you imagine the 90 minutes of fun Mark Patterson would have with that.
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 15:51
  #249 (permalink)  
 
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Would that be before or after he films himself walking across the Peace Bridge? Joking aside, whilst BMI have served STN well over the last few years, I wouldn’t be averse to a change of operator on this.
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 15:57
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Originally Posted by cuthere
Would that be before or after he films himself walking across the Peace Bridge? Joking aside, whilst BMI have served STN well over the last few years, I wouldn’t be averse to a change of operator on this.
If memory serves me correctly, I believe the only other interested party at the time of the PSO tender was Stobart. I wonder if they would have done a better job. They could have possibly utilised aircraft downtime better with perhaps a DUB rotation or two.
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 16:02
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Yeah, Stobart were the other airline in the final two. Who knows? Long old run in an ATR tueboprop. Still, as you say, they may have found value in operating MAN as well (for instance).
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 16:34
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From memory the PSO rules on funding are very restricted. I recall Euroceltic being threatened with fines from the EU for operating to SXL and then busing pax to I think CFN rather than operating desperate sectors. I'm sure it is worse now and probably not that easy to do something else with your airframe that's outside the PSO t and C's. It might not be as simple as in down time fly some place else
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 16:38
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I stand to be corrected, but believe when BE were doing Dundee to Stansted under a PSO, they added a (doomed) Amsterdam using the same airframe.
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 17:02
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Originally Posted by cuthere
I stand to be corrected, but believe when BE were doing Dundee to Stansted under a PSO, they added a (doomed) Amsterdam using the same airframe.
That is correct, then they moved the services to EDI.
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 18:15
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Originally Posted by speedbirdATC

If memory serves me correctly, I believe the only other interested party at the time of the PSO tender was Stobart. I wonder if they would have done a better job. They could have possibly utilised aircraft downtime better with perhaps a DUB rotation or two.
I always thought Stobart would have been a good outcome for LDY, because you would have got the same business-friendly schedule but with a bit more volume. You also would have got a few connections through SEN. It would certainly have been on the E195 , not an ATR.

I’m not sure they would have done other routes though and certainly not DUB. It’s more likely they would have operated somewhere from SEN inbetween, eg LDY-SEN-XXX-SEN-LDY-SEN-LDY. This would also allow them to swap aircraft and crews.
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 18:56
  #256 (permalink)  
 
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I’m not sure they would have done other routes though and certainly not DUB. It’s more likely they would have operated somewhere from SEN inbetween, eg LDY-SEN-XXX-SEN-LDY-SEN-LDY. This would also allow them to swap aircraft and crews.
That schedule would be pointless. How does one travel from London to Derry, then have a full day’s business before flying back to LON?
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 22:19
  #257 (permalink)  
 
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People used to manage OK with just one flight at the crack of dawn.

If you want to pick hairs they could actually fit in three return flights LDY-SEN and still fit in Lyon, Cologne, Rennes or such like in between, but to be honest it’s all hypothetical and irrelevant until the tender comes along again.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 07:43
  #258 (permalink)  
 
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Just to note that BE have never operated a Dundee-London PSO and the Dundee-London and Dundee-Amsterdam services were never operated by the same aircraft:
The London PSO has always (during its life span as a PSO funded route) been operated by Loganair, usually using 30-odd seat Dornier 328 or Saab aircraft. For a period the route was, of course, operated under the flybe franchise, but it was always Loganair underneath.
The Dundee-Amsterdam service was a totally separate thing, operated by flybe themselves with a Dash-8 (I believe on a W-pattern using a BHX-based aircraft?).
As such, during the life of the Dundee-London PSO operation, the Loganair aircraft allocated to this has never been used for any regular additional scheduled flying in between the London runs.
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 09:11
  #259 (permalink)  
 
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I’ve just heard from a very good source that something is cooking with Flybe. I’m told executives from the airline have been at the airport this week and that some form of route announcement is on the cards soon with the finer details being ironed out over the coming weeks. STN, MAN, BHX are being mooted as the discussed routes, as we would have expected.
Nothing is certain until we see it of course, but it’s still good to hear of some more positive route news in the pipeline.
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 11:10
  #260 (permalink)  
 
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That would be a step change for the airport. Having two successful and established regional airlines at LDY would be excellent. Do you have any timescales on this, should it happen? Fingers firmly crossed in the meantime.
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