Derry/Londonderry 2
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Location: Londonderry
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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You would think that either BM will find a way to operate it without upsetting the PSO agreement or LM will find a way to fit it into their programme before too long.
The long ground time between the STN flights is crying out for some infill PSO or not!
The long ground time between the STN flights is crying out for some infill PSO or not!
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Ireland
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I don't have Embraer operating costs to hand but I would guesstimate that the direct operating costs of a one-way sector from LDY to somewhere in the UK would be of the order of £2200-£2700 (not counting aircraft ownership cost, but counting maintenance costs).
So where should the aircraft fly to which can guarantee 30 seats filled on every flight at an average of at least £80 (before APD and airport charges) each way, or 40 seats filled on every flight at £60 or more (before APD and airport charges) each way? (By the way, these are just breakeven numbers - they don't take account of marketing and promotion expenses, for example.)
I've assumed a UK point as the most obvious destination. Of course the aircraft could theoretically go further afield, for example to Paris (no slots in AMS these days). I imagine that'd be a popular leisure destination. But the operating costs for the longer sector will be higher - perhaps £3000+ per sector. Are there really 30 people per flight willing to pay an average of £100 + APD + airport charges per one-way rather than driving down to BFS and hopping on easyJet?
There is a widely known saying that an aircraft is only making money when it's in the air. That's true. But the converse is not true: just because an aircraft is in the air doesn't mean it's making money. VLM in their prime used to do quite well operating morning and evening peak rotations to LCY and leaving many of their F50s parked up during the day at various outstations. I'd be fairly certain that Bmi will have priced up the PSO contract based on the aircraft only being used for STN and on the assumption that it is unused in the middle of the day. I'm sure that in the meantime they will have been pitched options for increasing the LDY aircraft utilisation. The fact that they are not flying anywhere in the middle of day doesn't mean the idea hasn't crossed their mind, just that they have been unable to identify a destination with a reasonable chance of profitability.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
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Was it not the fact that a/c assigned to PSO routes were/are precluded/dissuaded from flying further rotations from the "base" airfield & this was reflected too in the monetary weighting provided by Government for the contract?.
I`m curious too that a prime timing prime destination requires PSO whereas posters seem to be implying here that non prime timing non prime destination can make money!.
I`m curious too that a prime timing prime destination requires PSO whereas posters seem to be implying here that non prime timing non prime destination can make money!.
Bobby, FR (with very much lower operating costs/fares) were getting 12-14k pax a month on the STN at peak. I agree that it seems absurd to offer PSO on what has been proven to be a commercially viable route. But it is what it is, and fares reflect the higher operating costs of the EMB.
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Bobby, FR (with very much lower operating costs/fares) were getting 12-14k pax a month on the STN at peak. I agree that it seems absurd to offer PSO on what has been proven to be a commercially viable route. But it is what it is, and fares reflect the higher operating costs of the EMB.
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Since they are famous for their deal-making with airports it's probably not too far from the mark to suggest that they had a deal and then when it ran out they left.
This would suggest that they are either too bloody-minded to operate a profitable route just because they were no longer getting a subsidy or that the route wasn't viable without it.
As you say, they aren't renowned for their charity routes!
This would suggest that they are either too bloody-minded to operate a profitable route just because they were no longer getting a subsidy or that the route wasn't viable without it.
As you say, they aren't renowned for their charity routes!
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Given how desperate LDY clearly are, a 20 year deal with FR doesn't sound too far-fetched. Again, if it was that profitable why aren't they still doing it?
FR built their business by specialising in finding desperate airports close enough to metropolitan areas who were prepared to spend vast sums of money to have/keep them flying from/to there as they guaranteed to bring
vast numbers of passengers spending money in the local economies if the price of the airfare was cheap enough. LDY clearly falls into that category.
FR built their business by specialising in finding desperate airports close enough to metropolitan areas who were prepared to spend vast sums of money to have/keep them flying from/to there as they guaranteed to bring
vast numbers of passengers spending money in the local economies if the price of the airfare was cheap enough. LDY clearly falls into that category.
BMI are going three daily to/from STN on some days over the Christmas period. There’ll be two each way on Saturdays in the same period. Nice little boost for the airport for a couple of weeks. It’ll be the busiest it’s been for some years.
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Now that they've found a way to get the A/C going on another rotation a day hopefully it will become a permanent feature. They also announced reduced pricing starting at £39 one way.
Join Date: Dec 2017
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This must be to avoid the PSO issues whereby the aircraft should only be used on a max of 2 returns a day. 5 added, 5 taken off.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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The aircraft doesn’t exceed more than 2 return flights a day for January. It has one return roundtrip on the dates (shown in previous post) in January. Otherwise it only operates 2 x daily Sun-Fri and 1 x daily on a Sat. Same as at present.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Fingers being pointed and insults delivered across the Guildhall again over funding for the airport: https://www.derrynow.com/news/money-...funding/258850
Join Date: Dec 2017
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That time of the month again...
CAA stats for October 2018:
LDY movements:
452 (2018) = -11.2%
509 (2017)
Passenger numbers:
12,847 (2018) = 15% Decrease
15,107 (2017)
Passengers per route:
- GLASGOW = 3642 = -52% (Only 3 flights a week during October with Ryanair.)
- LIVERPOOL = 4696 = +39%
- LONDON (STN) = 3826 = -8%
- EDINBURGH = 622 = (NEW)
- NORWICH (CHARTER) = 61
Load Factors:
-GLASGOW = 82(~)%
-LIVERPOOL = 95.6%
-LONDON (STN) = 67%
-EDINBURGH = 82.3%
Glasgow's LF was calculated very roughly. Not a fantastic month however its great to see Liverpool doing well again after it being reduced from 5 weekly a few seasons back. November will be much more telling.
CAA stats for October 2018:
LDY movements:
452 (2018) = -11.2%
509 (2017)
Passenger numbers:
12,847 (2018) = 15% Decrease
15,107 (2017)
Passengers per route:
- GLASGOW = 3642 = -52% (Only 3 flights a week during October with Ryanair.)
- LIVERPOOL = 4696 = +39%
- LONDON (STN) = 3826 = -8%
- EDINBURGH = 622 = (NEW)
- NORWICH (CHARTER) = 61
Load Factors:
-GLASGOW = 82(~)%
-LIVERPOOL = 95.6%
-LONDON (STN) = 67%
-EDINBURGH = 82.3%
Glasgow's LF was calculated very roughly. Not a fantastic month however its great to see Liverpool doing well again after it being reduced from 5 weekly a few seasons back. November will be much more telling.