Belfast City Airport-2

[Alteagod]

Now i think about it im almost nearly fairly pretty certain that I read that EI had applied for this and received so ignore my previous enquiry.

[Fly757X]

Is there not a more general exception anyway for Irish carriers operating domestically in the UK and vice versa? I seem to remember reading this earlier in the thread actually

[cuthere]

Do we really believe (despite BFS Watcher’s highest hopes to the contrary) that any airline planning on setting up at BHD and intent on flying from/to U.K. destinations won’t have considered whether they have the appropriate AOC?

Either they don’t have any intention of operating the routes listed on the EI website/Irish News story (thereby rendering irrelevant the AOC issue), or, and stay with me here, they do, have the necessary paperwork/permissions and will announce it all soon enough.

[Husky One]

The issues around foreign carrier operation are real enough. The CAA are hoping the govt see some sense overall on the EU aviation front but are not counting on it. They are therefore peddling a pretty strong stance on all these issues including aoc and licensing. The bottom line is if you want to be sure, you’ll need a UK AOC. Ryanair thought the risk big enough to get their own. The risk hasn’t gone away. If anything it’s got worse.

[DUB19]

All 7 EI destinations back up on the website, looking like today they could be officially announced.

Prices and times are now showing.

[Fly757X]

Originally Posted by DUB19

All 7 EI destinations back up on the website, looking like today they could be officially announced.

Prices and times are now showing.

Looks a very fair schedule, from the routes that have times so far, 3 A/C will be required which will undoubtedly rise to 4, potentially 5 once MAN, LBA & GLA have times.

[BHX5DME]

BHX schedule

Monday to Friday ATR72 from 14.09.20

0805 – 0850 - EI3640 / EI3641

1545 – 1615 – EI3646 / EI3647

1920 – 1955 – EI3648 / EI3649

Saturday

0805 – 0850 – EI3640 / EI3641

1140 – 1225 – EI3642 / EI3643

Sunday

1155 – 1225 – EI3642 /EI3643

1545 – 1615 – EI3646 / EI3647

1920 – 1955 – EI3648 / EI3649

Ian

[Plane mad 134]

And here are the EDI times thanks to SeanM on Twitter:
BHD-EDI
0715-0805 EDI (M-Sa)
1610-1700 EDI (M-F&Su)
1835-1925 EDI (Su)

EDI-BHD
0840-0935 (M-Sa)
1735-1830 (M-F&Su)
2020-2115 (Su)

This is at 13x weekly before it increases to 18x weekly.

[cuthere]

Clearly, they thought through the issues around an AOC etc. Fair play to them. Hope it works well.

[JSCL]

I think we can all accept that A) This is a pretty impressive move by EI and B) It's going to keep Stobart around for time to come.

[JobsaGoodun]

In my mind this is about Aer Lingus protecting their feed at Dublin by keeping Stobart in business.

Stobart Group stated that they wouldn't bankroll Stobart Air in any expansion so it would appear that Aer Lingus were persuaded to help. All the routes will be the commercial responsibility of Stobart Air but clearly it makes sense for Aer Lingus to help them out rather than let them get into financial difficulty and put their DUB feed at risk. How long will it be before Stobart Group look to try and offload the airline on Aer Lingus?

[JSCL]

Originally Posted by JobsaGoodun

In my mind this is about Aer Lingus protecting their feed at Dublin by keeping Stobart in business.

Stobart Group stated that they wouldn't bankroll Stobart Air in any expansion so it would appear that Aer Lingus were persuaded to help. All the routes will be the commercial responsibility of Stobart Air but clearly it makes sense for Aer Lingus to help them out rather than let them get into financial difficulty and put their DUB feed at risk. How long will it be before Stobart Group look to try and offload the airline on Aer Lingus?

The latter point may be an inevitability. But CityJet were also pitching to take on the EI work, so it's not as though Stobart are the only player in town. There's multiple ACMI operators with ATR's available now.

[JobsaGoodun]

True, but I guess maintaining the status quo just now is hugely valuable to EI as they and Stobart attempt to recover from Covid.

What they've done makes complete sense, but I'm not sure if under normal circumstances EI would've permitted Stobart to use the brand to connect points outside of Southern Ireland. I think there is more to be gained in this for Stobart than for EI but it could be that EI intend to replace Stobart on some rotations ex DUB in order to keep their own staff/fleet in use, thus enabling Stobart to launch ex BHD. However, having ceased operations for Flybe on IOM and at SEN, Stobart probably had sufficient spare aircraft to deploy outside of their DUB based fleet.

[brian_dromey]

The Stobart schedule seems very impressive. From what I can see they require 5 aircraft, with GLA timings yet to become visible on the website. The pattern seems to be first fright out and then an afternoon and evening flight. It seems sensible to me. I wonder if they plan to fill the blanks over time, so even though this is a strong schedule there is good room for growth, should that prove sustainable. BIRMINGHAM

EI3640 BHD 0650 BHX 0805
EI3646 BHD 1430 BHX 1545
EI3648 BHD 1805 BHX 1920

EI3641 BHX 0850 BHD 1015
EI3647 BHX 1615 BHD 1735
EI3649 BHX 1955 BHD 2115

EAST MIDLANDS

EI3680 BHD 0715 EMA 0830
EI3688 BHD 1745 EMA 1900

EI3681 EMA 0900 BHD 1010
EI3689 EMA 1930 BHD 2040

EDINBURGH

EI3650 BHD 0715 EDI 0805
EI3656 BHD 1610 EDI 1700
EI3658 BHD 1900 EDI 1950

EI2651 EDI 0840 BHD 0935
EI3657 EDI 1735 BHD 1830
EI3659 EDI 2020 BHD 2115

EXETER

EI3690 BHD 1010 EXT 1140 1—45-7

EI3691 EXT 1210 BHD 1340 1—45-7

GLASGOW

EI36?? BHD GLA

LEEDS/BRADFORD

EI3670 BHD 0650 LBA 0800
EI3678 BHD 1820 LBA 1930

EI3671 LBA 0830 BHD 0945
EI3679 LBA 2000 BHD 2115

MANCHESTER

EI3610 BHD 0635 MAN 0740
EI3614 BHD 1500 MAN 1605
EI3618 BHD 1835 MAN 1940



EI2611 MAN 0825 BHD 0935
EI3618 MAN 1640 BHD 1750
EI3619 MAN 2010 BHD 2120

Originally Posted by Fly757X

Is there not a more general exception anyway for Irish carriers operating domestically in the UK and vice versa? I seem to remember reading this earlier in the thread actually

Hard to know, but EI did used to operate flights from the UK to Europe, in the 70s long before the EU and before "5th Freedom" flying was a common occurrence. EI is likely to have grandfather rights under historic agreements between Ireland the the UK, rather like how Irish Citizens retain the right to live and work in the UK after the 31st of December. The legal status of Irish citizens in the UK (and Vice versa) is fascinating and complex in equal measure.

[exchanged_gorilla]

BHD-MAN and BHD-BHX up to 4 daily

[Fly757X]

Originally Posted by brian_dromey

The Stobart schedule seems very impressive. From what I can see they require 5 aircraft, with GLA timings yet to become visible on the website. The pattern seems to be first fright out and then an afternoon and evening flight. It seems sensible to me. I wonder if they plan to fill the blanks over time, so even though this is a strong schedule there is good room for growth, should that prove sustainable. BIRMINGHAM

EI3640 BHD 0650 BHX 0805
EI3646 BHD 1430 BHX 1545
EI3648 BHD 1805 BHX 1920

EI3641 BHX 0850 BHD 1015
EI3647 BHX 1615 BHD 1735
EI3649 BHX 1955 BHD 2115

EAST MIDLANDS

EI3680 BHD 0715 EMA 0830
EI3688 BHD 1745 EMA 1900

EI3681 EMA 0900 BHD 1010
EI3689 EMA 1930 BHD 2040

EDINBURGH

EI3650 BHD 0715 EDI 0805
EI3656 BHD 1610 EDI 1700
EI3658 BHD 1900 EDI 1950

EI2651 EDI 0840 BHD 0935
EI3657 EDI 1735 BHD 1830
EI3659 EDI 2020 BHD 2115

EXETER

EI3690 BHD 1010 EXT 1140 1—45-7

EI3691 EXT 1210 BHD 1340 1—45-7

GLASGOW

EI36?? BHD GLA

LEEDS/BRADFORD

EI3670 BHD 0650 LBA 0800
EI3678 BHD 1820 LBA 1930

EI3671 LBA 0830 BHD 0945
EI3679 LBA 2000 BHD 2115

MANCHESTER

EI3610 BHD 0635 MAN 0740
EI3614 BHD 1500 MAN 1605
EI3618 BHD 1835 MAN 1940



EI2611 MAN 0825 BHD 0935
EI3618 MAN 1640 BHD 1750
EI3619 MAN 2010 BHD 2120





Hard to know, but EI did used to operate flights from the UK to Europe, in the 70s long before the EU and before "5th Freedom" flying was a common occurrence. EI is likely to have grandfather rights under historic agreements between Ireland the the UK, rather like how Irish Citizens retain the right to live and work in the UK after the 31st of December. The legal status of Irish citizens in the UK (and Vice versa) is fascinating and complex in equal measure.

Cheers for the explanation.

Overall a very comprehensive and fulfilling schedule and as you say, hopefully one which can be altered and added to over time.

[Alteagod]

Looks like BHD gains 5 nightstop ATRS and a Cityflyer Embraer when schedule gets up and running. At last a good news story for the staff.

[Fly757X]

No mention of GLA now on the official announcement as per their Facebook page. Maybe an agreement has been reached between LM/EI to sell the LM service through EI's system too.

[Alteagod]

And had they not also applied for LGW slots. Still a great coup for airport.

[SWBKCB]

So where are the 5 ATR's coming from?