Belfast City Airport-2
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My take outs from the article are as follows;
- cap on seats removed, but cap on movents remain, therefore I take that to mean a move towards larger aircraft. That can only mean aiming for Ryanair or easyJet business?
- How will the 733 seasonal routes be impacted by the noise regulations? I can't imagine any other aircraft will be in scope based on the current operation...
EI-BUD
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Surely there's room at City for some genuine European business flights. We've got AMS (albeit not at a great time), but there must be scope for MUC, FRA, MAD, BRU and so on. Maybe a C-series provides both the legs and efficiency to make those routes work.
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There is a strange irony in getting a seat cap lifted while numbers are at best static and in some cases decreasing on routes. A Carlisle route here and there isn't going to cause any issues anyway! If by getting this cap lifted, management have painted themselves into a corner regarding noise and extensions then I find it difficult to see what has been achieved? 
As Startled rightly points out, the airspace collapses once the airport is closed. In effect this means that from 2200 right through the night until 0630, every noisy cargo flight, passenger flight etc can descend as low as they want over any residential area they want on their way into Aldergrove. For example it is quite feasible and common for jet flights to be passing over BT9 at 2000ft all night long, yet if it was to happen during the day then there would be lots of complaints and subsequent outrage! Its a funny old world.
As Startled rightly points out, the airspace collapses once the airport is closed. In effect this means that from 2200 right through the night until 0630, every noisy cargo flight, passenger flight etc can descend as low as they want over any residential area they want on their way into Aldergrove. For example it is quite feasible and common for jet flights to be passing over BT9 at 2000ft all night long, yet if it was to happen during the day then there would be lots of complaints and subsequent outrage! Its a funny old world.
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There is a strange irony in getting a seat cap lifted while numbers are at best static and in some cases decreasing on routes. A Carlisle route here and there isn't going to cause any issues anyway! If by getting this cap lifted, management have painted themselves into a corner regarding noise and extensions then I find it difficult to see what has been achieved?
As Startled rightly points out, the airspace collapses once the airport is closed. In effect this means that from 2200 right through the night until 0630, every noisy cargo flight, passenger flight etc can descend as low as they want over any residential area they want on their way into Aldergrove. For example it is quite feasible and common for jet flights to be passing over BT9 at 2000ft all night long, yet if it was to happen during the day then there would be lots of complaints and subsequent outrage! Its a funny old world.
As Startled rightly points out, the airspace collapses once the airport is closed. In effect this means that from 2200 right through the night until 0630, every noisy cargo flight, passenger flight etc can descend as low as they want over any residential area they want on their way into Aldergrove. For example it is quite feasible and common for jet flights to be passing over BT9 at 2000ft all night long, yet if it was to happen during the day then there would be lots of complaints and subsequent outrage! Its a funny old world.
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When they put the flaps down you certainly hear them
. Down here in BT 9 on a quiet night or morning when they take off on 07 they are just a loud as something coming out of the city
Join Date: Oct 2018
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So all these night time arrivals are throttled back to minimum and they are practically silent you say? This is obviously a procedure that I was never aware of! Quick mathematical calculation then for the airborne experts. A320, descending through 3000ft with idle power setting over BT9 after coming up P620 from Dublin direction for downwind leg runway 25 at Aldergrove. Are you telling me it can continue in noise stealth mode with no adjustments required all the way to the threshold? Now that's impressive!
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There are noise procedures in place for night arrivals (and departures) in BFS. It isn’t difficult for a modern jet to arrive using minimum thrust if you let the crew get on with it. That entails letting them control the speed and minimising the use of speed brakes.
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In an ideal world, that's what would happen. In that case I would have thought something around 6000ft over the city giving approximately 20 plus miles from touchdown runway 25 would be sufficient for a CDA. However, the reality is there are jets over the city centre late night and early morning which are at best level at 3000ft and in most cases descending. I would have thought 3000ft over Belfast with idle power, still downwind, would end up with a touchdown point before Templepatrick? The examples I have seen are arrivals from the south west passing Lisburn in a steady descent, they seem to fly directly towards the HB and level off, then turn north west to pass east of Glengormley before establishing on long final runway 25.
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Can’t speak for those in BT9 but in BT6 the late night arrivals to BFS are not silent. As already mentioned, I’ll second the opinion that 07 departures from BFS can generate a fair amount of noise over the City too.
No point in complaining though. We want to fly, that creates noise.
No point in complaining though. We want to fly, that creates noise.
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Jets inbound to BFS are never over the city below 3000’. They are only cleared below that north of the City. They are also many times quieter than they were 20 years ago..in the days when nobody seemed bothered by them. There were also more of them flying around at night back then. I understand the BHD concerns but the BFS noise is clutching at straws.
As EGAC said - we like to fly. Planes make noise.
As EGAC said - we like to fly. Planes make noise.
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Is that a definitive statement from your own viewpoint or speculative? I can assure you jets inbound to EGAA are at times below 3000 feet over the city area. Even a quick glance at Flight Radar at times will confirm that if you don't believe it. The point being made was that ironically jet flights departing from GBBCA cannot or should not be over residential areas as noted below 3000 feet, yet at night flghts inbound to another airport can legally and safely be at 2000 feet over those same areas. I'm not trying to pick a fight. merely stating facts.
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No way would a BFS bound aircraft be permitted below 3000 feet over Belfast. There is a ring of hills to the north and west minimum height 1000 feet to around 1600 feet that approaching aircraft have to be 1000s of feet above. They can only begin final descent once they have passed these hills. They tend to be around 3000-4000 feet approaching the Knockagh before the left turn.
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OK. I'm getting bored of this now. 
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public...Itemid=73.html
Think I posted wrong link. the chart you want is the Minimum Altitude Chart, AD 2-EGAA-5-1
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public...Itemid=73.html
Think I posted wrong link. the chart you want is the Minimum Altitude Chart, AD 2-EGAA-5-1
Last edited by escaped.atco; 26th Jul 2019 at 10:23. Reason: incorrect link
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Me too. Probably just as well you escaped. During the day you are never dropped below 4000 until clear of the City’s airspace. At night you are dropped to 3000 but no less until being vectored onto the localiser. The base of the airspace on the chart does not imply the procedures employed. If the CAA had their way the whole of NI would be a class D control zone from the ground up. That doesn’t mean jets would be using it. Ask a locally based jet crew if you’re not convinced.
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Escaping is fantastic, I can thoroughly recommend it. Good for the mind and soul!
Husky seems adamant that EGAA arrivals steadfastly remain above 4000 until far away from the city centre and never go below 3000 at night. All those conversations I have had over the years coordinating descent to lower levels were obviously a figment of my imagination then.
As far as the Class D airspace issue, worth bearing in mind the majority of Northern Ireland airspace is uncontrolled and is likely to stay that way. The Class D already there is certainly piecemeal but it largely works.
Husky seems adamant that EGAA arrivals steadfastly remain above 4000 until far away from the city centre and never go below 3000 at night. All those conversations I have had over the years coordinating descent to lower levels were obviously a figment of my imagination then.
As far as the Class D airspace issue, worth bearing in mind the majority of Northern Ireland airspace is uncontrolled and is likely to stay that way. The Class D already there is certainly piecemeal but it largely works.
or better still Jet2 with the ‘classic’
