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Belfast City Airport-2

Old 1st Apr 2018, 00:49
  #281 (permalink)  
ECR
 
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Originally Posted by A320.b744 View Post
When IAG made their offer for Aer Lingus, they made a commitment that Aer Lingus slots would be ‘locked’ for a period of five years, meaning the slots had to be used for Aer Lingus services between LHR and Ireland. This was to ensure that Aer Lingus didn’t sell their LHR slots to British Airways, to be used for long haul expansion.

However, according to EI-A330-300 in their post above, BHD was not included in this agreement.

That doesn’t mean that my suspicions aren’t correct though - Aer Lingus could still just be holding onto the slots until BA needs them.

You mention that your sources say that Aer Lingus is performing well on its BHD-LHR route. That may be so, but what is good for Aer Lingus may not be good for IAG as a whole. Aer Lingus’ BHD-LHR flights carry flight numbers for several Star Alliance carriers. Surely this is bad for business for IAG, as Aer Lingus are essentially assisting the likes of Air Canada and United Airlines on services rivalling BA from LHR. It would make a lot more sense to axe Aer Lingus’ LHR service completely, and use the slots for a) 1-2 daily BA services to BHD, and b) 1-2 daily BA long haul services.
From what I recall the agreement protected the Heathrow slots to the other Aer Lingus airports (Dublin, Cork, Shannon) for a number of years, and prevented them being used elsewhere. In respect of the Belfast route though the slots were not restricted to Belfast, but were restricted to the Island of Ireland.

I don't think there would be anything stopping IAG indirectly using the Belfast slots elsewhere by instead using them on Dublin services and reducing equivalent number of BA slots to Dublin and using these BA slots elsewhere.

I think IAG are required to still provide connections to other airlines (e.g. Star Alliance) on favourable terms. I can see the advantages from IAG's point of view though of replacing the Belfast Aer Lingus services to LHR T2 with some BA services to LHR T5, as it makes it just a little bit more inconvenient to connect to Star Alliance services. It also makes it a lot more convenient to connect to other BA services due to the fact that domestic passengers on flights to T5 don't have to go through security at LHR and can go straight to departures with only a boarding pass scan.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 02:18
  #282 (permalink)  
 
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From what I read about the takeover. Belfast slots were protected for a shorter period of only two years, unlike Dublin. Remedy slots were made available from LGW to competitors. FR took the advantage however have handed them back, preferring Stanstead. Apparently under current EU law, IAG group airlines cannot operate services from LGW to either Belfast airports due to the monopoly on LHR.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 06:58
  #283 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=DC9_10 Apparently under current EU law, IAG group airlines cannot operate services from LGW to either Belfast airports due to the monopoly on LHR.[/QUOTE]

April1st?


IAG have a monopoly on Services from BCN,GLA,MAD to LHR and still operate those routes to LGW.

Last edited by BCALBOY; 1st Apr 2018 at 07:00. Reason: Omission
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 10:47
  #284 (permalink)  
 
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Since when were Barcelona Glasgow and Madrid on the island of Ireland. Just stating well publicised facts. Btw, BMI gave up Glasgow well before the BA take over leaving only BA on the route.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 12:54
  #285 (permalink)  
 
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The point is both BFS/LON and GLA/LON have the same status .Same rules apply.
No restriction on IAG optg N.I to LGW if they wanted to.

IAG also have a monopoly on DUB/LHR and didn't give up DUB/LGW though they had to make slots available.

Last edited by BCALBOY; 1st Apr 2018 at 14:10. Reason: Update.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 13:02
  #286 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing stopping IAG operating Belfast to Gatwick, they have thousands of other slots they could use. The only restriction was they had to give up the slot pairs and DUB/Belfast and they have since had Belfast returned and as soon as the 3 years runs out they can use them on anything.

EU demanded a token gesture, they knew full well IAG had no monopoly on Belfast market but rather London airports slot restricted is whats causing the domestic monopoly by Easyjet and BA at LGW and LHR.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 17:56
  #287 (permalink)  
 
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IAG have the monopoly on the Belfast to Heathrow route. They were forced to give up Gatwick. If a competitor wants those slots they have to be provided. IAG cannot use them on this route, however can use the slots for other routes until a competitor requires the slots to fly LGW to BFS/BHD. Nothing to do with Glasgow. Likewise a competitor cannot request the slots to fly another route. Akin to flybe and their Heathrow operations. EDI and ABZ only.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 18:02
  #288 (permalink)  
 
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IAG have the monopoly on the Belfast to Heathrow route. They were forced to give up Gatwick. If a competitor wants those slots they have to be provided. IAG cannot use them on this route, however can use the slots for other routes until a competitor requires the slots to fly LGW to BFS/BHD. Nothing to do with Glasgow. Likewise a competitor cannot request the slots to fly another route. Akin to flybe and their Heathrow operations. EDI and ABZ only.
IAG could of stayed on BHD-LGW if they wanted to, yes they gave up slots to enable another operator operate a commercially viable alternative but they were free to continue BHD-LGW had BA wanted to give EI slots to do so or EI re-apply for new slots.

There was no obligation for them to pull BHD-LGW. IAG took a wise decision to let it go for the greater good.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 18:08
  #289 (permalink)  
 
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IAG group were forced by the EU competition commission to surrender the BHD to LGW slots. It was one of the conditions in allowing the group to buy Aer Lingus.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 18:15
  #290 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DC9_10 View Post
IAG group were forced by the EU competition commission to surrender the BHD to LGW slots. It was one of the conditions in allowing the group to buy Aer Lingus.
They surrendered slots but not the route. The route cancellation was tactical on IAGs part and most likely not particularly high yielding for EI either.

Not specific slots, they were forced to give up 5 slot pairs 3 at BHD and 2 at DUB. EI could have applied to LGW for new slots or BA give them existing slots to enable then continue flying in addition to Easyjet at BFS and in this case Ryanair at BFS.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 18:16
  #291 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EI-A330-300 View Post
IAG could of stayed on BHD-LGW if they wanted to, yes they gave up slots to enable another operator operate a commercially viable alternative but they were free to continue BHD-LGW had BA wanted to give EI slots to do so or EI re-apply for new slots.

There was no obligation for them to pull BHD-LGW. IAG took a wise decision to let it go for the greater good.
Your last comment is totally incorrect.

There absolutely was an obligation and it was well publicised at the time of the takeover in July 2015.

Under the terms of the purchase of Aer Lingus five daily slot pairs on LGW to BHD had to be surrendered by IAG to ensure competition in the market place.

The facts are there for everyone to see online so I don't understand why you have to state totally false information!

Or is it just suiting your agenda!
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 18:20
  #292 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by canberra97 View Post
Your last comment is totally incorrect.

There absolutely was an obligation and it was well publicised at the time of the takeover in July 2015.

Under the terms of the purchase of Aer Lingus five daily slot pairs on LGW to BHD had to be surrendered by IAG to ensure competition in the market place.

The facts are there for everyone to see online so I don't understand why you have to state totally false information!

Or is it just suiting your agenda!
You need to check it was 5 slots with 2 op ex DUB and 1 op ex Belfast with the other 2 slots for optional use at either airport. So the winner could have ran x4 daily ex DUB and x1 daily ex Belfast had they wanted.

There is no agenda the facts are 5 slot pairs had to be given up to allow a new operator enter the market. IAG could have kept LGW with other slots if they wanted.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 18:32
  #293 (permalink)  
 
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European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Mergers: Commission approves acquisition of Aer Lingus by IAG, subject to conditions

The clearance decision is conditional upon the following commitments, which address the Commission’s concerns:

* the release of five daily slot pairs at London-Gatwick airport to facilitate the entry of competing airlines on routes from London to both Dublin and Belfast ; and
* Aer Lingus continuing to carry connecting passengers to use the long-haul flights of competing airlines out of London-Heathrow, London-Gatwick, Manchester, Amsterdam, Shannon and Dublin .
IAG submitted:

* IAG submitted commitments to release five daily slot pairs at London Gatwick which can be used on the specific routes of concern, namely Dublin–London and Belfast–London. The availability of these slots, and other incentives such as the acquisition of grandfathering rights after a certain period of time, facilitate the entry of competing airlines.

* Furthermore, IAG made a commitment to enter into agreements with competing airlines which operate long-haul flights out of London Heathrow, London Gatwick, Manchester, Amsterdam, Shannon and Dublin so that Aer Lingus will continue to provide these airlines with connecting passengers. Passengers will therefore continue to have a choice to use other airlines than IAG when connecting at these airports, for instance on Heathrow–New York, Gatwick–Las Vegas, Manchester–Orlando, Amsterdam–Singapore, Shannon–Chicago, and Dublin–Chicago.
They were not forced to exit BHD-LGW.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 18:42
  #294 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you Canberra. IAG were forced to give the slots up.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 18:56
  #295 (permalink)  
 
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They were forced to provide slots for up to 3 flights a day to enable another operator to fly LGW/BFS.How those slots were sourced was at the discretion of IAG. They chose to find the slots by cancelling the LGW/BHD route.
If they wanted to continue to op the route at that time they could have sourced the slots by cancelling or reducing frequency on another LGW route.

When Ryanair handed back to slots IAG have had to operate other services to maintain grandfather rights on the slots.Since they haven't reinstated
LGW/BHD they have chosen to use the slots elsewhere.

There is no restriction on them operating to either BFS or BHD if they wanted to.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 19:05
  #296 (permalink)  
 
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IAG cannot reinstate those slots for a LGW to BFS/BHD service End of. Dont know what the fuss is about anyway as IAG won't be at BHD much longer anyway ?
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 19:15
  #297 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry mate but you are wrong.

If you google 'Regulation 139/2014 Aerlingus/IAG' , there is a 175 page document which all aspects of the merger from engineering to ground handling to routes.

There is a big different between IAG being barred from operating the route and their choice which so far is not to.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 19:21
  #298 (permalink)  
 
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Far to busy enjoying mg Easter Sunday. IAG cannot operate LGW to BFS/BHD. They also won't be operating BHD/LHR for much longer either.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 19:26
  #299 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DC9_10 View Post
They also won't be operating BHD/LHR for much longer either.
Have you heard of plans for IAG to a) move to BFS, b) axe Belfast altogether, or c) is this pure speculation?
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 20:48
  #300 (permalink)  
 
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Just seen on the BFS forum that KLM are looking to start at BFS ASAP. Would be a big blow
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