Stobart Air-2
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Belfast
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Probably not much difference to putting up money to start a route
One year left of 3 year deal and established routes for new buyer of airline.
Helps sell the airline and also safety net should EIR not keep the regional contract
Could probably put this in a better way but home brew is ready today for the weekend
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ballymena
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No Bfs fan club rattled here. I am just curious how some of the members of the Bhd fan club believe that an airline that was saved from bankruptcy very recently, as per the details in post No 581, quoting notes from a crisis meeting 2 weeks ago and that the airline was only saved to prevent the whole group going under, has the funds to start a bunch of new routes at Bhd?
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Northern Ireland
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Does anyone have any informed indication on the level of investment that would be required for an airline to start new routes and open a base at Belfast City?
Will be interesting to see what new routes Brain Ambrose hinted would be announced within two weeks.
Will be interesting to see what new routes Brain Ambrose hinted would be announced within two weeks.
Still got ATR's ex BE? Crew furloughed? Using EI for sales/bookings? If they have excess capacity would the start up costs be much more than continuing to do nothing?
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: London
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Crew Also but would need boring if opening a base in BHD can’t see the ex-SEN crew or IOM crew relocate to BHD
and I’m pretty sure EI said they don’t want anything with Stobart outside of DUB/Ireland
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
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In defense of Stobart, the facts are that their Aer Lingus Regional business has been successful and noted as the better piece of Stobart Group's portfolio in recent times. Airlines mostly everywhere have been immeasurably impacted by the pandemic and only a few are financially strong enough to weather this storm, and others get bail outs eg Lufthansa. The business will come back, timelines are unclear. So whether Stobart for a recent bailout of not is a mute point.
Airports investing in airlines is not customary, however if the owner of BHD did invest on commercial terms that's another matter.
I don't believe that the above investment scenario is on the cards. The fundamental issue here is about the brand and distribution. The EI contract has very limited time left, and its been publicly stated that EI will pursue all avenues in terms of the right airline for the franchise. What at this juncture is in it for Aer Lingus? Unless BHD has given concessions to EI on operational costs? These would apply to BA, under the IAG procurement umbrella. There is limited strategic value for EI in expanding the EI Regional brand at BHD. They add value feeding passengers into the TA network.
As a consequence Stobart will need to build a new brand for BHD. This doesn't sound promising to me. However, as a counter balance, encouraging to see BHD regaining some lost services via Loganair, Eastern and BA.
Airports investing in airlines is not customary, however if the owner of BHD did invest on commercial terms that's another matter.
I don't believe that the above investment scenario is on the cards. The fundamental issue here is about the brand and distribution. The EI contract has very limited time left, and its been publicly stated that EI will pursue all avenues in terms of the right airline for the franchise. What at this juncture is in it for Aer Lingus? Unless BHD has given concessions to EI on operational costs? These would apply to BA, under the IAG procurement umbrella. There is limited strategic value for EI in expanding the EI Regional brand at BHD. They add value feeding passengers into the TA network.
As a consequence Stobart will need to build a new brand for BHD. This doesn't sound promising to me. However, as a counter balance, encouraging to see BHD regaining some lost services via Loganair, Eastern and BA.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Antrim
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Just worth pointing out EIR do routes from SNN and ORK which don't feed into DUB, in fact ORK has several routes to UK cities that have been mentioned as possible from BHD - MAN, BHX, EDI etc.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
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Of course they do Mart901, but in these instances they don't have the sort of competition that Belfast would have from easyJet etc. They are long established under the EI brand. Whereas 'if' the suggested BHD flights took off under the EIR brand, they may not be long lived in that guise if Stobart were not successful in maintaining the franchise.
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Belfast
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Of course they do Mart901, but in these instances they don't have the sort of competition that Belfast would have from easyJet etc. They are long established under the EI brand. Whereas 'if' the suggested BHD flights took off under the EIR brand, they may not be long lived in that guise if Stobart were not successful in maintaining the franchise.
So it's possible if Regional do it for a bit then they become Air Arran (not Aer Arran) or FlyUThere name may not matter.
Stobart don't have a booking system and I simply cannot seem them establishing one now. Since the Aer Arann days they have operated under either the EI or BE reservations system and EI were not willing for them to use their branding for the SEN European routes, as had been originally hoped, so BE stepped in. The chances of a Stobart route network based at IOM and/or BHD looks very slim to me.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
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Of course it is entirely logical that Aer lingus would be reluctant to have the brand used in Southend. What’s in it for Aer lingus. However .... Aer lingus have an established operation at Belfast city already and it would make commercial sense to expand that presence.
I don’t think any delay is coming from Aer lingus fo be honest
I don’t think any delay is coming from Aer lingus fo be honest
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Antrim
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Of course they do Mart901, but in these instances they don't have the sort of competition that Belfast would have from easyJet etc. They are long established under the EI brand. Whereas 'if' the suggested BHD flights took off under the EIR brand, they may not be long lived in that guise if Stobart were not successful in maintaining the franchise.
Also the EI brand is very well established here not only from BFS+BHD but also DUB where swathes of people drive to to catch flights from Northern Ireland.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Northern Ireland
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For Winter 2020 the ATR Planes based at airports need to be?
1x CFN, 2x ORK, 1x KIR, 5x DUB, 5x BHD
that is 14 ATR Planes I think will need EI-GPN back so to have 15 ATRs
1x CFN, 2x ORK, 1x KIR, 5x DUB, 5x BHD
that is 14 ATR Planes I think will need EI-GPN back so to have 15 ATRs
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: uk
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Do Stobart still have 2 Embraer E190 in the fleet, are they planning on using them are any of the Aer Lingus routes
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
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They are still listed as being in the fleet on the various websites that track these things. AFAIK jets are specifically excluded from the Regional franchise. That might be limited to legacy EI bases like ORK, DUB and SNN. These things are up for negotiation, as the ASL 757s and CityJet ARJS show. I don’t imagine the EI pilot union would be too happy with Stobart operating E190s on BHD-LGW, but might tolerate LCY as it’s not A320 capable?
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
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They are still listed as being in the fleet on the various websites that track these things. AFAIK jets are specifically excluded from the Regional franchise. That might be limited to legacy EI bases like ORK, DUB and SNN. These things are up for negotiation, as the ASL 757s and CityJet ARJS show. I don’t imagine the EI pilot union would be too happy with Stobart operating E190s on BHD-LGW, but might tolerate LCY as it’s not A320 capable?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hither and Thither
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