Flybe-9
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The UK CAA will come under some harsh pressure here. It is accepted in most countries in Europe and further afield that airline licences will stand during administration/bankruptcy to give them a fighting chance of an outcome. Here they are stifling business and risking jobs, every time it happens. I wonder how many jobs would have been saved over the years?
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The Flybe Operating Licence remains suspended but not yet revoked.
The statement about the UK CAA approach being more restrictive than in other EU countries isn't correct. If you take examples in Germany like Azur Air and BlueWings, the LBA has made proposals and then revoked OLs on grounds of financial fitness, and thereby brought airlines to a halt, long before the CAA has ever done. The UK CAA has taken a more laissez faire approach with airlines being able to reach their own natural demise rather than being brought to a halt by regulatory intervention alone. The only exception to this general rule of allowing airlines to meet their own natural end has been where legitimate safety and regulatory compliance concerns have arisen, such as in the case of a certain HS748 operator. At a general level, I don't really see that JSCL's criticism is valid or justified by the facts.
The statement about the UK CAA approach being more restrictive than in other EU countries isn't correct. If you take examples in Germany like Azur Air and BlueWings, the LBA has made proposals and then revoked OLs on grounds of financial fitness, and thereby brought airlines to a halt, long before the CAA has ever done. The UK CAA has taken a more laissez faire approach with airlines being able to reach their own natural demise rather than being brought to a halt by regulatory intervention alone. The only exception to this general rule of allowing airlines to meet their own natural end has been where legitimate safety and regulatory compliance concerns have arisen, such as in the case of a certain HS748 operator. At a general level, I don't really see that JSCL's criticism is valid or justified by the facts.
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Albert I think your understanding is slightly outdated.
Look at CityJet Ireland. Look at LGW from Germany, admittedly they're gone now but when they went in to 'administration' the licences stayed in place to allow the business time to either come back or be sold as a going concern.
Then let's not mention the US Carriers going in to C11.
Look at CityJet Ireland. Look at LGW from Germany, admittedly they're gone now but when they went in to 'administration' the licences stayed in place to allow the business time to either come back or be sold as a going concern.
Then let's not mention the US Carriers going in to C11.
Perhaps the CAA is a bit too quick to prevent UK airlines that have gone into administration from somehow reviving themselves. That said, it had been clear from at least spring 2019 that Flybe was in deep trouble. Once Covid turned up, Flybe didn't stand a chance.
The time for reviving an airline is in the first few weeks after flying is suspended when the brand could maybe come back to life and the routes with most potential had not been claimed by other airlines. Even if Cyrus were ready to go tomorrow with Flybe v2, a delay of 3 months combined with a significant fall in air travel demand means the window of opportunity has almost certainly closed
The time for reviving an airline is in the first few weeks after flying is suspended when the brand could maybe come back to life and the routes with most potential had not been claimed by other airlines. Even if Cyrus were ready to go tomorrow with Flybe v2, a delay of 3 months combined with a significant fall in air travel demand means the window of opportunity has almost certainly closed
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The time for reviving an airline is in the first few weeks after flying is suspended when the brand could maybe come back to life and the routes with most potential had not been claimed by other airlines. Even if Cyrus were ready to go tomorrow with Flybe v2, a delay of 3 months combined with a significant fall in air travel demand means the window of opportunity has almost certainly closed
The 3 month lead time is a good thing so demand can be judged before any launch. I don't believe the eLPC or Zoom Tech refreshers are just out of the kindness of their heart but still very much appreciated..........
I believe that ALL not just the leased aircraft from the Flybe fleet are undergoing an ownership change. It will be a shell of a business with no aircraft or training academy and most tangible assets sold so the creditors can't get anymore from the process.
Perfect for Cryus to buy for next to now't - they know what they are doing in the airline business and would probably keep the current management. The company licences are still under review by the Transport Secretary and have been for a long time - the Gov are sitting on it for a reason. The DFO and HoCT are still getting employed by the administrators for a reason, why are they there?
Lots and lots of DASH now sitting with lessors looking for new operators. Any future operator will be able to get a great deal and have their pick of the bunch once the aircraft have been cleaned up/repainted by the lease companies so none of the shabby ex Flybe ones will be back unless sorted. Those LGW ones should fit the bill... all white and easy to fit the Virgin Connect decals to.
This Covid19 saga has decimated the industry and put loads of us out of work BUT it is also an opportunity so we just have to wait and see.
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I think my understanding is pretty up-to-date but I believe the problem you are citing is one around differences between insolvency laws which are not the CAA's bag.
As of today, Flybe's Operating Licence is suspended but remains live. The CAA has made proposals to rescind it, which are the subject of an appeal by the administrators. This will be considered by the Secretary of State for Transport. If Flybe was sold today by the administrators, the entity would have an Operating Licence which it could re-activate. It's the same position as LGW in Germany. You cannot hold an OL perpetually in suspension so that situation has to come to an end at some point, whether for Flybe under UK CAA jurisdiction or LGW under LBA jurisdiction.
Irish insolvency laws contain the provisions for examinership which have some important differences to administration. The management remains in control and responsible for the business during its restructuring in examinership, where in the UK, an administrator takes individual liability for the business. I have not yet seen an administrator willing to take on the personal risk of running an airline, which is why airlines tend to stop operating immediately before or upon entry to administration. A CVA is the nearest equivalent in the UK (although by no means the same as examinership in Ireland) and a UK airline was indeed able to continue to trading under a CVA for quite some time. That could happen again.
Chapter 11 is a completely different box of tricks as I think we all know.
The issues which I think you are raising are therefore not the CAA's to consider or review. If you want to see change, UK insolvency laws applicable to any business - whether it be an airline or a hair salon - are the key to this.
As of today, Flybe's Operating Licence is suspended but remains live. The CAA has made proposals to rescind it, which are the subject of an appeal by the administrators. This will be considered by the Secretary of State for Transport. If Flybe was sold today by the administrators, the entity would have an Operating Licence which it could re-activate. It's the same position as LGW in Germany. You cannot hold an OL perpetually in suspension so that situation has to come to an end at some point, whether for Flybe under UK CAA jurisdiction or LGW under LBA jurisdiction.
Irish insolvency laws contain the provisions for examinership which have some important differences to administration. The management remains in control and responsible for the business during its restructuring in examinership, where in the UK, an administrator takes individual liability for the business. I have not yet seen an administrator willing to take on the personal risk of running an airline, which is why airlines tend to stop operating immediately before or upon entry to administration. A CVA is the nearest equivalent in the UK (although by no means the same as examinership in Ireland) and a UK airline was indeed able to continue to trading under a CVA for quite some time. That could happen again.
Chapter 11 is a completely different box of tricks as I think we all know.
The issues which I think you are raising are therefore not the CAA's to consider or review. If you want to see change, UK insolvency laws applicable to any business - whether it be an airline or a hair salon - are the key to this.
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I am not convinced about these latest statements concerning a form of flybe returning.
Mostly as the three members of the consortium are apparently in line to receive an amount of their investment back from EY.
This part of his statement I find interesting for all the wrong reasons:
Cyrus is doing everything it can, along with the other consortium members, to ensure that a business emerges that can re-hire the many thousands of employees who were dependent on it.”
Is Virgin and Stobart working with Cyrus to ensure a business emerges after it was allowed to fail? Has anyone heard this strategy from Virgin and Stobart since the 5th March?. Especially Virgin!!!
How many is many thousands of employees? flybe has circa 2400 (not many thousands as stated) and it would be near on impossible to have a working start up to have that many re-employed.
I understand that people are getting hopeful and positive about some emergence of a regional airline from the dire commercial failure of flybe.
But a large pinch of salt is required to accompany statements on its revival.
Mostly as the three members of the consortium are apparently in line to receive an amount of their investment back from EY.
This part of his statement I find interesting for all the wrong reasons:
Cyrus is doing everything it can, along with the other consortium members, to ensure that a business emerges that can re-hire the many thousands of employees who were dependent on it.”
Is Virgin and Stobart working with Cyrus to ensure a business emerges after it was allowed to fail? Has anyone heard this strategy from Virgin and Stobart since the 5th March?. Especially Virgin!!!
How many is many thousands of employees? flybe has circa 2400 (not many thousands as stated) and it would be near on impossible to have a working start up to have that many re-employed.
I understand that people are getting hopeful and positive about some emergence of a regional airline from the dire commercial failure of flybe.
But a large pinch of salt is required to accompany statements on its revival.
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I am not convinced about these latest statements concerning a form of flybe returning.
Mostly as the three members of the consortium are apparently in line to receive an amount of their investment back from EY.
This part of his statement I find interesting for all the wrong reasons:
Cyrus is doing everything it can, along with the other consortium members, to ensure that a business emerges that can re-hire the many thousands of employees who were dependent on it.”
Is Virgin and Stobart working with Cyrus to ensure a business emerges after it was allowed to fail? Has anyone heard this strategy from Virgin and Stobart since the 5th March?. Especially Virgin!!!
How many is many thousands of employees? flybe has circa 2400 (not many thousands as stated) and it would be near on impossible to have a working start up to have that many re-employed.
I understand that people are getting hopeful and positive about some emergence of a regional airline from the dire commercial failure of flybe.
But a large pinch of salt is required to accompany statements on its revival.
Mostly as the three members of the consortium are apparently in line to receive an amount of their investment back from EY.
This part of his statement I find interesting for all the wrong reasons:
Cyrus is doing everything it can, along with the other consortium members, to ensure that a business emerges that can re-hire the many thousands of employees who were dependent on it.”
Is Virgin and Stobart working with Cyrus to ensure a business emerges after it was allowed to fail? Has anyone heard this strategy from Virgin and Stobart since the 5th March?. Especially Virgin!!!
How many is many thousands of employees? flybe has circa 2400 (not many thousands as stated) and it would be near on impossible to have a working start up to have that many re-employed.
I understand that people are getting hopeful and positive about some emergence of a regional airline from the dire commercial failure of flybe.
But a large pinch of salt is required to accompany statements on its revival.
It is noteworthy that at the time of the bailout the Stobart board listed Cyrus as not participating in the rights issue.
I don't think Stobart have the funds (or appetite) to have another tilt at FlyBe. I also think Cyrus have had their fill with UK regional airlines given their reported refusal to participate in the Stobart (and by extension Stobart Air) bailout.
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Since Cyrus has now lost out in its bid to secure Virgin Australia, one wonders how quickly any stated ambition (regardless of how realistic or not) to see Flybe return to the skies will evaporate?!!!
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Just read that article.
Well I assume they will be full thrust on getting flybe up and running again. They definitely have the money seeing s they will not be using it for VA.
So, any day now there will be a statement from one of their advisors stating that UK regional airlines is a priority and they will rejoin with Virgin and Stobart and tell everyone to watch this space. I mean they ARE doing all they can with the other consortium members.
Or we may not here about their regional airline plans again.
Well I assume they will be full thrust on getting flybe up and running again. They definitely have the money seeing s they will not be using it for VA.
So, any day now there will be a statement from one of their advisors stating that UK regional airlines is a priority and they will rejoin with Virgin and Stobart and tell everyone to watch this space. I mean they ARE doing all they can with the other consortium members.
Or we may not here about their regional airline plans again.
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Looks like Flybe Aviation Services the MRO was sold at the start of June to Atlantic Aviation Group and they've started flogging off the spare engines too.
Not much left, No planes, Training Academy, Engineering.... just a shell
https://www.skyworld.co.uk/wp-conten...NE-2020-OP.pdf
Wonder who NAC are going to lease their 33 exFlybe and LGW Q400's to?
Not much left, No planes, Training Academy, Engineering.... just a shell
https://www.skyworld.co.uk/wp-conten...NE-2020-OP.pdf
Wonder who NAC are going to lease their 33 exFlybe and LGW Q400's to?
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Flybe Aviation Services (MRO) was always going to be sold off separate.
The GE CF34-8E Engines that are used on Embraer E170/175 have been sold off to BeauTech Power Systems
And to buy back the Ex Flybe 20 Dash 8 from NORD/LB the price is about £85 Million
The GE CF34-8E Engines that are used on Embraer E170/175 have been sold off to BeauTech Power Systems
And to buy back the Ex Flybe 20 Dash 8 from NORD/LB the price is about £85 Million
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Stobart narrowly avoided administration itself earlier this month, and a huge shareholder bailout was needed (in the form of a rights issue) to keep it afloat. Cyrus are a Stobart shareholder (3rd largest pre the rights issue).
It is noteworthy that at the time of the bailout the Stobart board listed Cyrus as not participating in the rights issue.
I don't think Stobart have the funds (or appetite) to have another tilt at FlyBe. I also think Cyrus have had their fill with UK regional airlines given their reported refusal to participate in the Stobart (and by extension Stobart Air) bailout.
It is noteworthy that at the time of the bailout the Stobart board listed Cyrus as not participating in the rights issue.
I don't think Stobart have the funds (or appetite) to have another tilt at FlyBe. I also think Cyrus have had their fill with UK regional airlines given their reported refusal to participate in the Stobart (and by extension Stobart Air) bailout.