Flybe-9

[Alteagod]

It would be a mere shadow of its former self if this all got the green light

[panpanpanpan]

Originally Posted by Startledgrapefruit

I am sure the government could find some experts on Pprune that could do it

Don't be ridiculous, surely you should know all the Pprune experts are currently instructing the government on policy and telling Boris exactly how to run things.
Once they have rescued the country and written a few Daily Mail articles then they will once again be available for all matters aviation related.

[TartinTon]

Let's not forget the not-so-insignificant effect of them switching their selling and hosting systems from Shares to Amadeus. This would have added a massive cost e.g from £1-2 per sector to £6-7 per sector. A stupid decision taken under COW's watch.

[Albert Hall]

Although the switch to Amadeus wasn't helpful, I think there were some rather larger issues around!

RivetJoint, I'd been told that the lessors had afforded Flybe quite a lot of latitude as they did not want a load of parked and unsaleable Q400s. They have been bitten badly as all of the debts left after Flybe had negotiated revised payment terms at the airports have become their problem given how these things work. They have not only got a load of unwanted aircraft back but are having to pay a lot to the airports to un-impound them.

The thing that ultimately brought Flybe to a halt that night was a fuel supplier at Glasgow pulling its credit terms and then the airport reacting. Something was going to start the domino effect at some point, but in terms of the final trigger, that's what did it. Nothing to do with the lessors.

[Wycombe]

A couple of the Dashes at SOU have been hangared for work over the last few days. On the move soon?

[brian_dromey]

Originally Posted by Albert Hall

Although the switch to Amadeus wasn't helpful, I think there were some rather larger issues around!.

It was indicative of poor management decisions, perhaps? Why did a small regional, low cost airline with wafer thin, or negative margins need such a capable and expensive infrastructure? Presumably Amadeus promised the sun moon and stars in terms of additional revenue. EI for example still continue to use their archaic system because it is cheap.

[Gurnard]

Originally Posted by jmccrew

Can't see that happening, especially in the light of Loganair's statement today. Probably a journalist's opportunism.
Loganair stepped in after the Flybe collapse but now are in need of help.

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/1...rvive-says-md/.

[cabsav]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...-deal-11966720

It looks like it’s definitely over. Feel for them as aviation will be in a terrible state for years.

[jamestkirk]

Certainly looks that way. I get the impression ex employees kept assuming that the airline would re-open in some way, which is positive thinking but futile thinking.

[MJR]

As an ex-Flybe employee, perhaps I can add some clarity to this thread.

On the 5th March, all 2000+ employees at Flybe were made redundant with no notice and no redundancy pay.

Shortly after, the government offered compensation to employees who were furloughed by companies that couldn’t continue to trade following the Covid 19 outbreak. Because Flybe employees were redundant and not furloughed they were not entitled to compensation. Hence the idea came about for the government to buy Flybe in order for the staff to be eligible for this compensation.NOT for the purpose of reinstating the company as an operational airline.

Since then the government has now offered compensation for the employees of insolvent companies too, however the Administrators for Flybe have refused to invoke this right on a cost basis. This demand has been made by the IPA/BALPA and thus far has been rejected by Ernst Young. The request is now being made directly to the treasury.

I hope this helps.🧟‍♂️

[JobsaGoodun]

The idea of Flybe staff being able to access the same funding would be great, but I guess there are just lots of complications here.

• Furloughing means you're still employed by a business that still exists, but Flybe became insolvent on 5th March and ceased to exist as a going concern on this date.
• If furloughed, what happens to these individuals? The Flybe business is being administrated and bits of it sold off to the highest bidder so there will be no business to return too.
• Many of those made redundant on 5th March will have already received and put to use redundancy payments. Wouldn't these need to be repaid by those individuals if they are to be furloughed instead?

No doubt there are others too. I really do have huge empathy for the situation at Flybe. I had many friends that worked there but as so often seems to be the case, it just comes down to timing and you either fall one side of the line or the other.
On this occasion, a business that has used up a number of lives in the past succumbed to its last.

What I'm really disappointed by is that not enough priority has been given to regional connectivity. I can't help but feel that what this country will need, more than anything else when all this is over, is not an operator with a heavy leisure bias, but one that is more business orientated to help build a recovery here in the UK. Flybe would've been able to offer this and help speed us through the recovery phase and get business moving again.

[stewyb]

Originally Posted by JobsaGoodun

The idea of Flybe staff being able to access the same funding would be great, but I guess there are just lots of complications here.

• Furloughing means you're still employed by a business that still exists, but Flybe became insolvent on 5th March and ceased to exist as a going concern on this date.
• If furloughed, what happens to these individuals? The Flybe business is being administrated and bits of it sold off to the highest bidder so there will be no business to return too.
• Many of those made redundant on 5th March will have already received and put to use redundancy payments. Wouldn't these need to be repaid by those individuals if they are to be furloughed instead?
• No doubt there are others too....

I really do have huge empathy for the situation at Flybe, as many of my friends worked there but as so often seems to be the case, it just comes down to timing and I guess you either fall one side of the line, or the other.
On this occasion, a business that has used up a number of lives over the recent decade just couldn't hold on long enough.

What I'm really disappointed by is that not enough priority has been given to regional connectivity. I can't help but feel that what this country will need, more than anything else when all this is over, is not an operator with a heavy leisure bias, but one that is more business orientated to help build a recovery at hear in the UK. As it did in the past, Flybe would've been able to do that and help speed us through the recovery phase and get business moving again.

Let’s give a little credit to Loganair and Eastern as they stepped in very quickly to pick up core domestic routes. It’s only for the unfortunate timing of COVID 19 that has derailed their new ventures. We can only hope that once this pandemic is over, these airlines will still be available to help the recovery for U.K. connectivity!

[jamestkirk]

MJR

I understand your points but if thats the case why is there numerous requests on facebook etc. by ex employees, to sign a petition for a state run airline. To be honest meaning a resurrection of flybe. Or the letter sent to the Chancellor by staff saying:Your government has committed to ‘levelling up the country’ and to supporting regional connectivity. In these difficult days, weeks and months this country will need the transport infrastructure that only Flybe can offer, which in turn will stimulate our economy not only though (sic) this connectivity but also by protecting jobs for pilots, cabin crew, engineers and support staff through airports and local suppliers.

“We believe this can be achieved quickly with a dynamic workforce of skilled professionals who are ready to ‘get back to work’ to support our economy, business, travel and tourism by providing regional connectivity that is accessible across the United Kingdom.

All i was saying is that the chances of a resurrection based on the above is virtually nil . Other regionals have and will step in to fill the profitable gaps. This I am sure will offer opportunities to ex flybe staff and I hope the best for them. However, it is extremely important for expectations to be founded in a sense of reality regarding the situation.

Just for clarity.

[ETOPS]

A Q400 (G-PRPH) positioned from LHR to EXT this morning. The first flight of any ex-BEE aircraft since administration?

[PDXCWL45]

Originally Posted by airsouthwest

What I never understood is if Virgin wanted Flybe to become a Virgin brand, why buy it when you could have just given them a US style franchise, Virgin control the costs, the routs, the branding, customer services etc, Flybe still keep their AOC and would have stayed afloat. I still think the only reason they bought Flybe was for the Heathrow slots, the coronavirus amongst other things scuppered that.

However once this is all over we are still going to have a massive hole in regional connectivity, whilst Loganair & Blue Islands might have filled some of those flights, they will be in a very weak position as will all airlines, I wouldn't be surprised to see Loganair, Eastern & Blue Islands merge or join together in some sort of way.

I know Heathrow slots are valuable but it seems a lot of trouble to go to for slots that would not have belonged to them. I can't see Cyrus capital letting them have them for free. They'd have to have paid for them somehow either through purchase or leasing if either were possible as Cyrus would've wanted a return on their investment.
Personally I think that Virgin just bit off more than they could chew.

[cabsav]

It is strange they didn't realise (or maybe they did) that the business model was just nothing more than road kill. Maybe they got convinced by the various highly incompetent senior management statements over the years that 'our strategy is working'. Clearly not. There is a Sky news article where is looks like they were burning £10 million a month. It is incredulous that with 8 million passengers and a turnover of £800 million that they couldn't make any money. Again, highly incompetent management. Now the staff have to pay for their ineptitude.

[virginblue]

I am wondering what will happen to the massive fleet of Q400s. Other large operators such as airbaltic and Eurowings/LGW are now dumping their Q400s as a result of COVID19, so there will be a massive supply of airframes for which I have difficulties seeing a tkaer in a post-COVID19-world - unless the market dries up over a longer period to an extent that routes now served with 120-150 seaters can be served with 80 seat turborops more efficiently (which I doubt). So probably they will end up as soda cans.

[Wycombe]

unless the market dries up over a longer period to an extent that routes now served with 120-150 seaters can be served with 80 seat turborops more efficiently (which I doubt).

Why not - isn't this the Q400's sweetspot?

You would think that leasing co's will be desperate to place them.

Given the choice of a UK domestic or near Europe route restarting on a Q400, or not re-starting at all, then I think most folk who need to travel (even those who might have previously not liked flying in something that has propellers) will be pleased to have that option?

[virginblue]

That's why I mentioned the importance of the duration of the coming recession. As airlines would need to built up a sub-fleet of Q400s (as this is the size of aircraft almost all airlines with a diversified fleet have dumped over the past couple of years) using often fairly knackered 2nd hand examples, without some certainty about how long it will take until demand gets back to near normal I don't really see a business case.

[Jenny Tails]

Originally Posted by virginblue

I am wondering what will happen to the massive fleet of Q400s. Other large operators such as airbaltic and Eurowings/LGW are now dumping their Q400s as a result of COVID19, so there will be a massive supply of airframes for which I have difficulties seeing a tkaer in a post-COVID19-world - unless the market dries up over a longer period to an extent that routes now served with 120-150 seaters can be served with 80 seat turborops more efficiently (which I doubt). So probably they will end up as soda cans.

The scrap heap is my guess