Flybe-9

[EI-BUD]

So if the above rumours are true re A220 and MAN to London routes; I'm struggling to see what has changed since Little Red was operating in respect to Virgin's potential volume of connecting traffic? It didn't work then, what will make it work now? This route has limited point to point and in that respect is well serviced by BA, not to mention slot availability and cost at LGW and LHR.

Stobart is heavily invested with Embraer now and they potentially will proceed to add more complexity and cost to the fleet when it would appear streamlining it would seem more logical.

with a large fleet of q400s and a 'supposedly' loss making network, I'd have expected to see a route network restructure aligned to the stated objectives of providing network feed to VS and I'd guess the maintenance of the profitable routes. If that is completed there still is a large fleet to find meaning work for and now they are about to add extra aircraft and a new type ... the mind boggles ...

[SWBKCB]

If that is completed there still is a large fleet to find meaning work for and now they are about to add extra aircraft and a new type ... the mind boggles ...

It's either very "brave" or somebody with deep pockets is implementing a long term, game changing strategy. Is that likely to come out of the current Virgin/Stobart/Flybe organisations?

[mullac30]

Red Wings A220s were meant to go into production very soon before the lease agreement was canceled, perhaps Connect are picking them up at the last minute from Red Wings' leasing company.

[PDXCWL45]

Originally Posted by mullac30

Red Wings A220s were meant to go into production very soon before the lease agreement was canceled, perhaps Connect are picking them up at the last minute from Red Wings' leasing company.

And that order was for the 300 variant. Does the A220 have separate production lines for each variant?

[jmccrew]

Delta owns 49% of Virgin and have 90 A220 on order . Not sure with tariffs if some come to the uk

[22/04]

If there are deep pockets they are probably in Atlanta.

[PDXCWL45]

Originally Posted by EI-BUD

So if the above rumours are true re A220 and MAN to London routes; I'm struggling to see what has changed since Little Red was operating in respect to Virgin's potential volume of connecting traffic? It didn't work then, what will make it work now? This route has limited point to point and in that respect is well serviced by BA, not to mention slot availability and cost at LGW and LHR.

Stobart is heavily invested with Embraer now and they potentially will proceed to add more complexity and cost to the fleet when it would appear streamlining it would seem more logical.

with a large fleet of q400s and a 'supposedly' loss making network, I'd have expected to see a route network restructure aligned to the stated objectives of providing network feed to VS and I'd guess the maintenance of the profitable routes. If that is completed there still is a large fleet to find meaning work for and now they are about to add extra aircraft and a new type ... the mind boggles ...

Stobart could take over the E175s of which Flybe will have 15 and use them on Aer Lingus instead of the props and Flybe can then change to an all A220 fleet then.

[toledoashley]

I might be a bit behind on the conversation, but were DL trying to offload some A220's to Aeromexico?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Starting MAN > LHR & LGW.

I have these magic beans for which I shall give them my best possible price

[shamrock7seal]

Could this be confused with the rumoured IAG order for A220's destined fro Aer Lingus and Cityflyer?

[Reversethrustset]

I'll believe the A220 order for Connect Airways when I see it.

[Sharklet_321]

Agree. If IAG don’t cut the current ‘bond’ between Aer Lingus Regional and Stobart/Connect soon then they are idiots. Virgin is a competitor to IAG unless I’ve missed something?

[Rivet Joint]

Originally Posted by JSCL

Not sure if this is already on here.... but heard yesterday that FlyBe are going down the A220 route. Starting MAN > LHR & LGW.

I have said they should do this for years. The A220 is the key cog for the next aviation frontier. The low cost carrier market has probably reached its peak, the flag carriers will not be allowed to fail, what about the middle ground? The A220 can make a profit on those thin routes that nobody is serving currently. It’s no surprise that David Neeleman (founder of JetBlue, westjet, Azul) is basing his new airline around the A220. I’m amazed more airlines have not seen this opportunity a lot sooner. Credit the Air Baltic for getting in early. Production slots are going to be at a premium for a while yet.

[Reversethrustset]

The American domestic market is a completely different beast to the UK domestic market, infact they are so far removed from each other I don't see where any comparisons can be made at all.
Rivet Joint, your foresight is truly astounding, how you don't hold a senior strategic management role within a major world airline is equally, if not more astounding. Your talents are wasted.

[Rivet Joint]

Originally Posted by Reversethrustset

The American domestic market is a completely different beast to the UK domestic market, infact they are so far removed from each other I don't see where any comparisons can be made at all.
Rivet Joint, your foresight is truly astounding, how you don't hold a senior strategic management role within a major world airline is equally, if not more astounding. Your talents are wasted.

not sure where I compared the two markets? I was merely pointing out that the A220 should be the most sought after piece of kit. The 737s core design dates back to the 60s, and the A320 to the 80s. It’s quite amazing that the A220 is the only nareowbody created this century considering its 2018, but more so that airlines are not jumping over themselves to buy it. Now airbus is in the driving seat, there is no uncertainty over the project, and a second production line is being added. Connect backed by virgin/delta could steal a march on the competition by adding the A220. I fully suspect Easyjet to end up with a large fleet of A220s, also BA. These are just my thoughts though, but I feel confident about my prediction holding up. No doubt the current Flybe management will probably have to go for such a revolutionary step to be taken though.

[Reversethrustset]

I think history is the biggest teller as to why airlines haven't jumped on the bandwagon. The only domestic routes that will probably make money in the UK flying jets the size of the A220/320 are your core trunk routes, Scotland - London, Ireland - London, Bristol - Scotland. I've heard figures being banded from senior management that these routes have to run at 85% load factor just to break even so that doesn't really beg the question why airlines aren't flying SOU - NCL etc on A319s etc, the answer is right there, just look at history, it doesn't work, the routes are too thin, it's the same as why airlines aren't operating out of Bournemouth in abundance; why not? It simply doesn't work, if it did you'd see them in there competing. If the A220 order books are full and they are difficult to come by this could drive up leasing costs, I can't see brand new aircraft having competitive lease costs flying thin, domestic routes around the UK. I wouldn't be so shocked to see it happen but I'd be more shocked if it was profitable. It is my opinion that even the A220 is still way off the mark economically to make such a pipe dream a profitable reality. Time will tell.

[inOban]

The economics would only work if there is a core, year-round business market prepared to pay for flexible fares.

[horatio_b]

The Sukhoi Superjet was also created this century.

[speedrestriction]

Back around 2011 or so Jim French and his management bet the company on the notion that re-fleeting with regional jets would sort out flybe’s problems.

That worked out a treat, didn’t it?

The lesson must surely be: Get the network, pricing and loads right first and then consider a re-fleeting.

[22/04]

I think history is the biggest teller as to why airlines haven't jumped on the bandwagon. The only domestic routes that will probably make money in the UK flying jets the size of the A220/320 are your core trunk routes, Scotland - London, Ireland - London, Bristol - Scotland.

Maybe these are the only routes that will make money FLYING ANYTHING.

is Hop in France heavily subsided?

If so maybe this is the only way the UK can have a regional network.