Flybe-9
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Absolute rubbish rog747, it's not the greed of the airlines but rather the fare paying public wanting something for nothing or a ticket for £20. Air travel on a £70m jet has never been sustainable for £20 and it never will be. Years ago you didn't have the option of not paying for hold luggage because you paid it within your £400 ticket, now you have the option of not paying it by not taking it yet the likes of you whine your tits off when your ticket doesn't even cost 3 figures. Now you have an option, you either pay for each item separately picking and choosing what you want to pay for thus making air travel cheaper, or you pay £400 for the lot with no breakdown. Make your mind up, you can't have it both ways.
Absolute rubbish rog747, it's not the greed of the airlines but rather the fare paying public wanting something for nothing or a ticket for £20. Air travel on a £70m jet has never been sustainable for £20 and it never will be. Years ago you didn't have the option of not paying for hold luggage because you paid it within your £400 ticket, now you have the option of not paying it by not taking it yet the likes of you whine your tits off when your ticket doesn't even cost 3 figures. Now you have an option, you either pay for each item separately picking and choosing what you want to pay for thus making air travel cheaper, or you pay £400 for the lot with no breakdown. Make your mind up, you can't have it both ways.
Beg to slightly differ sorry old chap - But you too have worked in the industry (me since 1972, flying since 1964) like me you know we never had these problems when there was no choices on luggage on your ticket purchased back then - And no, not all tickets were £400 a pop - My first flight in 1964 was 2 weeks to the Costa Brava on a Britannia 33lbs hold bag and a cabin bag- wow how we lived! (and survived)
We paid 35 Guineas for that 2 weeks holiday and half price for me (I was 7)
One hold bag and one small cabin bag - end of - planes flew - passengers happy - crew happy UNTIL the bright sparks started to dismantle the product - Then and only then Joe P has been faced with a plethora of confusing rules and regs couple that with post 9/11 issues and constant security threats and changes to hand baggage rules therein plus the fact that Joe P now thinks he has been given the god given rights to take the contents of 2 suitcases squeezed into a wheelie holdall.
Personally I do not want it both ways - I don't care and I can afford to buy whatever ticket I choose - frankly the more bags I put in the hold the less I have to carry ---
What I do care and have empathy for is the poor crews that on almost on every flight I have taken in the past few years have to deal with the problems and delays of too much hand luggage brought first to the gate and then to the a/c which is in my view the pure fault of the airlines in offering too much choice which is then too confusing and open to misinterpretation and abuses.
Go back to hold luggage and one small piece would end this nonsense immediately.
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If paying £25 for a bag to go in the hold is a problem, should you be flying in the first place? If you can't wait 15 mins for your bag to arrive at reclaim, then I feel sorry for you that your life is so busy you have no time!
I don't buy pax ignorance about hand baggage as a lot of BE pax are regular flyers - however BE must make it a lot more clear when booking a flight of permitted bag sizes, relevant charges and on board storage limitations then everyone will
Last edited by EI-BUD; 3rd Jan 2019 at 13:15.
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My first flight in 1964 was 2 weeks to the Costa Brava on a Britannia 33lbs hold bag and a cabin bag-
Join Date: Mar 2004
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At a minimum of £22.50 per bag, it is no surprise that most customers go out of their way to avoid checking in bags on Flybe flights. By comparison, a small bag on an easyJet domestic is £13.50 and BA is typically around £10 to upgrade from Hand Baggage Only to the options including a bag. You do have to wonder whether they would get a different result both in terms of revenue, operational delivery and customer loyalty if they changed their charging structure somewhat - £10 to check a bag and you get a free voucher to take a bag next time if it takes more than 20 minutes to deliver it on arrival.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I do see what you mean, but many fares are good value these days. I agree that peak and last-minute fares can be eye-watering, but that is supply and demand, I suppose. Ryanair are happy to sell me STN-ORK for £39 return, another £12 for my bag seems reasonable. I do agree that these fees make comparing like-for-like very difficult. I have no idea what the exact rules are for hold/cabin baggage on various European or US airlines. Im surprised its not something google doesn't include as an option on their flights search engine.
I don't mind checking a bag, but I'd prefer a model more like easyJet's hands-free which gives you the choice of checking-in or taking on-board. Just in case you run late. BA also allow Hand Baggage Only customers to check-in their compliant hand luggage for free. Handy for >100ml liquids acquired on the way or buying a bottle to bring home.
I don't mind checking a bag, but I'd prefer a model more like easyJet's hands-free which gives you the choice of checking-in or taking on-board. Just in case you run late. BA also allow Hand Baggage Only customers to check-in their compliant hand luggage for free. Handy for >100ml liquids acquired on the way or buying a bottle to bring home.
The most you took was a British Eagle or a BEA shoulder bag ( remember them? ) and your duty frees if you had bought at the airport
Hat racks only for hats and coats - and on the way home you could usually put your donkey and sombrero up there and duty free fags (they were light)
On the Tenerife flights everyone had bunches of Bird of Paradise to bring home so they went in the hat racks OK
We still had hat racks only when I was at BMA with our Viscounts and DC-9's and 707's this was until the 707 jets got a new wide look cabin and the DC9's got overhead lockers fitted - about 1982? BUT this was nothing to do with fares or what you could take on board it was to keep the stuff secure behind a closed locker or bin door
I recall Britannia's early model 737's had hat racks until the late 80's
Last edited by rog747; 3rd Jan 2019 at 16:03.
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It's a bit ironic, isn't it, that Flybe is the carrier that started charging for hold baggage in Europe. I recall the chap who had that brainstorm (he's currently at Aer Lingus I believe) being pilloried by his peers during an industry conference a couple of years ago.
It rather begs the question: what do you suppose the reaction of joe public would be if 'old fashioned' all-in (hold baggage and on-board refreshments) fares were charged, by Flybe or any other carrier, instead of the current disjointed affairs which have become de rigueur? Would that be considered the actions of an industry disruptor or of a fool? Certainly it would go a long way toward solving many of the baggage problems being experienced today.
It rather begs the question: what do you suppose the reaction of joe public would be if 'old fashioned' all-in (hold baggage and on-board refreshments) fares were charged, by Flybe or any other carrier, instead of the current disjointed affairs which have become de rigueur? Would that be considered the actions of an industry disruptor or of a fool? Certainly it would go a long way toward solving many of the baggage problems being experienced today.
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It's a bit ironic, isn't it, that Flybe is the carrier that started charging for hold baggage in Europe. I recall the chap who had that brainstorm (he's currently at Aer Lingus I believe) being pilloried by his peers during an industry conference a couple of years ago.
It rather begs the question: what do you suppose the reaction of joe public would be if 'old fashioned' all-in (hold baggage and on-board refreshments) fares were charged, by Flybe or any other carrier, instead of the current disjointed affairs which have become de rigueur? Would that be considered the actions of an industry disruptor or of a fool? Certainly it would go a long way toward solving many of the baggage problems being experienced today.
It rather begs the question: what do you suppose the reaction of joe public would be if 'old fashioned' all-in (hold baggage and on-board refreshments) fares were charged, by Flybe or any other carrier, instead of the current disjointed affairs which have become de rigueur? Would that be considered the actions of an industry disruptor or of a fool? Certainly it would go a long way toward solving many of the baggage problems being experienced today.
To show how low the whole low fares thing has stooped to is that fact that Joe P pax will happily buy the lowest fare you can get say on a LGW-JFK Norwegian flight - sometimes not much more than £100 one way
Take a cabin bag onboard free, not buy any food (This is a 7 hour plus duration flight) and be quite happy to buy a Boots ready meal in the terminal or a home made sandwich to eat plus ask for a glass of water.
This is what long haul let alone short haul travel has become - quite vile if you ask me
Yes I know Laker did it almost 40 years ago too for £59
Take a cabin bag onboard free, not buy any food (This is a 7 hour plus duration flight) and be quite happy to buy a Boots ready meal in the terminal or a home made sandwich to eat plus ask for a glass of water.
This is what long haul let alone short haul travel has become - quite vile if you ask me
Yes I know Laker did it almost 40 years ago too for £59
Join Date: Feb 2005
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To show how low the whole low fares thing has stooped to is that fact that Joe P pax will happily buy the lowest fare you can get say on a LGW-JFK Norwegian flight - sometimes not much more than £100 one way
Take a cabin bag onboard free, not buy any food (This is a 7 hour plus duration flight) and be quite happy to buy a Boots ready meal in the terminal or a home made sandwich to eat plus ask for a glass of water.
This is what long haul let alone short haul travel has become - quite vile if you ask me
Yes I know Laker did it almost 40 years ago too for £59
Take a cabin bag onboard free, not buy any food (This is a 7 hour plus duration flight) and be quite happy to buy a Boots ready meal in the terminal or a home made sandwich to eat plus ask for a glass of water.
This is what long haul let alone short haul travel has become - quite vile if you ask me
Yes I know Laker did it almost 40 years ago too for £59
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To show how low the whole low fares thing has stooped to is that fact that Joe P pax will happily buy the lowest fare you can get say on a LGW-JFK Norwegian flight - sometimes not much more than £100 one way
Take a cabin bag onboard free, not buy any food (This is a 7 hour plus duration flight) and be quite happy to buy a Boots ready meal in the terminal or a home made sandwich to eat plus ask for a glass of water.
This is what long haul let alone short haul travel has become - quite vile if you ask me
Yes I know Laker did it almost 40 years ago too for £59
Take a cabin bag onboard free, not buy any food (This is a 7 hour plus duration flight) and be quite happy to buy a Boots ready meal in the terminal or a home made sandwich to eat plus ask for a glass of water.
This is what long haul let alone short haul travel has become - quite vile if you ask me
Yes I know Laker did it almost 40 years ago too for £59
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This issue of cabin luggage IS all of the airlines problem and is all their own doing - They now reap what they sewed by allowing in the first place 10-15 or so years ago the concept of cabin baggage only - take what you like and you don't have to pay blah blah blah for hold luggage
Joe P is not too blame here --- only the greed of the airlines trying to make a fast buck on charges and saving on ground handling - That greed now causes delays (shot themselves in the foot there lol) stress and problems to both the pax ground staff and crews onboard playing pass the bloody parcel of bags around the cabin and back into the hold etc
NOT IN MY DAY!
sorry no sympathies - The airlines created the monster
Joe P is not too blame here --- only the greed of the airlines trying to make a fast buck on charges and saving on ground handling - That greed now causes delays (shot themselves in the foot there lol) stress and problems to both the pax ground staff and crews onboard playing pass the bloody parcel of bags around the cabin and back into the hold etc
NOT IN MY DAY!
sorry no sympathies - The airlines created the monster
All that said, I do have sympathy for crew. They didn't write the luggage policies and regularly have to deal with the issue of lack of space on board for luggage and particularly if ground colleagues in the airport aren't helping by waiving the policy rules (be it intentionally or improperly/inconsistently enforcing the policy) when they have other things to worry about to ensure an on time departure. Having been on Flybe aircraft, I can fully understand why the sizes are what they are, even if it's confusing/frustrating because it's different to other airlines.
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Norwegian offer a premium cabin with these things included, should you wish to pay. On short-haul the LCC's offer an all-in fare of some description. Catering is not usually included, people don't seem to want it. Veiling used to offer a fare with a blocked middle seat and free choice from the trolley. They have dropped it now. Other airlines offer premium Economy/Business Class on European routes, but the cabins are rather smaller than Economy, suggesting what people are prepared to pay for. Of course we all want something for nothing!
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To show how low the whole low fares thing has stooped to is that fact that Joe P pax will happily buy the lowest fare you can get say on a LGW-JFK Norwegian flight - sometimes not much more than £100 one way
Take a cabin bag onboard free, not buy any food (This is a 7 hour plus duration flight) and be quite happy to buy a Boots ready meal in the terminal or a home made sandwich to eat plus ask for a glass of water.
This is what long haul let alone short haul travel has become - quite vile if you ask me
Yes I know Laker did it almost 40 years ago too for £59
Take a cabin bag onboard free, not buy any food (This is a 7 hour plus duration flight) and be quite happy to buy a Boots ready meal in the terminal or a home made sandwich to eat plus ask for a glass of water.
This is what long haul let alone short haul travel has become - quite vile if you ask me
Yes I know Laker did it almost 40 years ago too for £59
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Let me assure you; there are some truly vile people we have to put up with, especially to certain European destinations during the summer months, and if they couldn't afford to fly they would be no great loss to the decent, law-abiding passengers on board.
I have long advocated a return to a flat, inclusive fare. Catering could be an optional extra but a bag in the hold (it costs no more for the handlers to go out for one bag or 50) and a fixed, median fare would be fare for all.
Remember, if you've paid £35, some poor devil has paid £250; an aircraft costs a fixed amount to operate.
Someone above mentioned the root cause of the so-called Low Cost Carrier - corporate greed. And it was accepted hook, line and sinker mainly by the 'vile' newcomers to air transport. The rest of us had no choice but to grin and bear it.
I have long advocated a return to a flat, inclusive fare. Catering could be an optional extra but a bag in the hold (it costs no more for the handlers to go out for one bag or 50) and a fixed, median fare would be fare for all.
Remember, if you've paid £35, some poor devil has paid £250; an aircraft costs a fixed amount to operate.
Someone above mentioned the root cause of the so-called Low Cost Carrier - corporate greed. And it was accepted hook, line and sinker mainly by the 'vile' newcomers to air transport. The rest of us had no choice but to grin and bear it.
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Let me assure you; there are some truly vile people we have to put up with, especially to certain European destinations during the summer months, and if they couldn't afford to fly they would be no great loss to the decent, law-abiding passengers on board.
I have long advocated a return to a flat, inclusive fare. Catering could be an optional extra but a bag in the hold (it costs no more for the handlers to go out for one bag or 50) and a fixed, median fare would be fare for all.
Remember, if you've paid £35, some poor devil has paid £250; an aircraft costs a fixed amount to operate.
Someone above mentioned the root cause of the so-called Low Cost Carrier - corporate greed. And it was accepted hook, line and sinker mainly by the 'vile' newcomers to air transport. The rest of us had no choice but to grin and bear it.
I have long advocated a return to a flat, inclusive fare. Catering could be an optional extra but a bag in the hold (it costs no more for the handlers to go out for one bag or 50) and a fixed, median fare would be fare for all.
Remember, if you've paid £35, some poor devil has paid £250; an aircraft costs a fixed amount to operate.
Someone above mentioned the root cause of the so-called Low Cost Carrier - corporate greed. And it was accepted hook, line and sinker mainly by the 'vile' newcomers to air transport. The rest of us had no choice but to grin and bear it.
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