Flybe-9
The LHR slots never become Flybe's - they remain as a leasehold rather than a freehold. All that happens over time is that they can be shifted from ABZ and EDI routes to any other short-haul route of Flybe's choosing, should it elect to do so. Flybe can also apply for the unused remedy slots at LHR and they have done so for Summer 2019, to be used on any short-haul route of its choice. However, they cannot be sold and cannot be leased to any other airline - so of no value to Flybe unless they can actually make money flying them.
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Could BE sub-let the slots to someone else? Or even if it came to it launch a route to Guangzhou (operated by China Southern)?
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Not necessarily. More efficient flying 60 people to Edinburgh in a Dash than to Manchester in an Airbus. Not saying it’s making money, but it’s not necessarily losing too much.
Could BE sub-let the slots to someone else? Or even if it came to it launch a route to Guangzhou (operated by China Southern)?
Still carrying 60 with significant numbers being codeshare passengers at pence in the pound will never pay the bills period ; That’s exactly the formula that did in bmi !
Its also the massive weakness in the HAL third runway argument. Domestic routes other than those adopted by BA will never work on a purely commercial basis.
Second no they can’t sublet them to anybody ever .
They can’t ever be used on long haul cepting Cairo or Riyadh or medium haul to Moscow.
Repeat and rewind read above post on the subject.
Are you suggesting that BA's UK domestics are profitable ?
Seems odd to fly all of that at a loss! LGW and LCY have to stand on their own two feet as there's almost zero feed to long haul outwith the first wave LGW southbounds.
Last edited by Skipness One Foxtrot; 18th Nov 2018 at 19:59.
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by class meaning that far from pennies, codeshare pax can actually be worth significant revenues often better than the point to point pax! You just need to have people who know what their doing.
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I cannot see how the LHR routes make money.
A320 every hour wuth semi seamless connections or the flybe option in a Dash !
vanity ?
or nice juicy sale when time permits .
A320 every hour wuth semi seamless connections or the flybe option in a Dash !
vanity ?
or nice juicy sale when time permits .
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Am I dreaming or did Flybe pay £15 million for some LGW slots not that long ago? If so, presumably they are freehold, unrestricted and theirs to sell? So that's around half the sale price of the company?
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I think that the fact that they have just expanded INV to 3 a day including a nightstopper points to a reasonably attractive business (helped by lack of APD of course).
Not sure how they all stack up on an O&D basis but all the domestics produce a huge amount of feed for BA into LHR (LBA probably being the best example of this).
Not sure how they all stack up on an O&D basis but all the domestics produce a huge amount of feed for BA into LHR (LBA probably being the best example of this).
That is exactly what the account accompanying the graphic says, so how can the figures be "utterly useless" ???
Not necessarily. More efficient flying 60 people to Edinburgh in a Dash than to Manchester in an Airbus. Not saying it’s making money, but it’s not necessarily losing too much.
Could BE sub-let the slots to someone else? Or even if it came to it launch a route to Guangzhou (operated by China Southern)?
A320 every hour wuth semi seamless connections or the flybe option in a Dash !
One of the challenges must be that flybe are competing with their borderline LHR operations with a large operation out of LCY. Now BA can do this better, in the way LHR-GLA was downsized and LCY-GLA up-sized with a move away from connections to support strong point to point London traffic but I don't see flybe having the benefits of scale to do this.
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If they weren't profitable they wouldn't do them. I think you know this 
How the figures are represented is, of course, quite different. I can present you with figures which, on a straightforward accounting basis, show the BA Domestics as profitable. I can also present you with figures done on an equally straightforward basis which show they have lost considerable money for each of the last 45 years. What do you want me to show ? Despite all this, BA choose to let them absorb a substantial number of Heathrow slots which have great value.
I did once, in consecutive weeks, pay more on a BA Monday morning trip to Aberdeen than on a trip to Miami. Both in Y. The Aberdeen flight was fuller ...
A network carrier means what it says, it is the overall network which is the asset value; trying to salami slice it down and look at individual bits is, to an extent, a disconnected beancounting pastime.
A considerable part of how BMI lost so much is they were constrained by Star Alliance connecting passenger revenue splitting. It worked OK where you had the long haul, but BMI, uniquely short haul only in the alliance, were short changed by all the long haul carriers into Heathrow. That was a real loss.
How the figures are represented is, of course, quite different. I can present you with figures which, on a straightforward accounting basis, show the BA Domestics as profitable. I can also present you with figures done on an equally straightforward basis which show they have lost considerable money for each of the last 45 years. What do you want me to show ? Despite all this, BA choose to let them absorb a substantial number of Heathrow slots which have great value.
I did once, in consecutive weeks, pay more on a BA Monday morning trip to Aberdeen than on a trip to Miami. Both in Y. The Aberdeen flight was fuller ...
A network carrier means what it says, it is the overall network which is the asset value; trying to salami slice it down and look at individual bits is, to an extent, a disconnected beancounting pastime.
A considerable part of how BMI lost so much is they were constrained by Star Alliance connecting passenger revenue splitting. It worked OK where you had the long haul, but BMI, uniquely short haul only in the alliance, were short changed by all the long haul carriers into Heathrow. That was a real loss.
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The only slots Flybe have at LGW are for the NQY route. The rest were sold off for £25 million. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...t-for-20m.html