Flybe-9
But airports such as Cardiff and Norwich, which are heavily dependent on Flybe but are outside its central core, must be concerned. They have intense competition from nearby airports, Bristol and Stansted respectively.
I would be surprised if every Flybe flight that is currently on sale for the summer of 2019 actually takes off. I think it unlikely that the airline will cease to exist – the fact that several potential suitors are talking indicates it has value – but the current route network is an odd shape.
The central core of routes is likely to endure, because it is an efficient and coherent network. The Channel Islands services should mostly also look the same. But a route such as Doncaster-Sheffield to Alicante, operating three days a week, looks an outlier.
The central core of routes is likely to endure, because it is an efficient and coherent network. The Channel Islands services should mostly also look the same. But a route such as Doncaster-Sheffield to Alicante, operating three days a week, looks an outlier.
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 18th Nov 2018 at 01:12.
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The Independant’s travel expert Simon Calder thinks otherwise.
Wrtiting in todays paper he suggests a new buyer will be pruning the current network to restore profitability.
Full story here https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a8635186.html
Wrtiting in todays paper he suggests a new buyer will be pruning the current network to restore profitability.
Full story here https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a8635186.html
Yawn Yawn Yawn here we go again what is it with you and your one man agenda.
Simon Calder someone who I totally respect as an experienced travel expert may well be correct in his assumption but he's not gloating about the situation as is very obvious in your case.
You have had your time away from these forums (which we've all enjoyed btw) and recently reappeared under a different username but still with the same agenda, your unbelievable.
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Interestingly, when the Spanish services from Exeter and Norwich, were stopped, temporarily, with the E95 after Christmas, Flybe continued the Exeter-Norwich service with the Dash. I must admit when I have flown the route the loads are full or nearly full. Also, the fares, if booked early, are cheap as it is a start up route.
Another point is that the hinterland for this route is increased because there is no direct competition for Norwich, as Luton and Stansted don’t fly to Exeter.
Another point is that the hinterland for this route is increased because there is no direct competition for Norwich, as Luton and Stansted don’t fly to Exeter.
Yawn Yawn Yawn here we go again what is it with you and your one man agenda.
Simon Calder someone who I totally respect as an experienced travel expert may well be correct in his assumption but he's not gloating about the situation as is very obvious in your case.
You have had your time away from these forums (which we've all enjoyed btw) and recently reappeared under a different username but still with the same agenda, your unbelievable.
I have ignored your flaming but just to put my case on record for others.
I have never been banned from this forum.
Last time I checked this is a forum for pilots.
I have held UK,US and Australian fixed wing and helicopter licences for 35 years.
Over the years I have landed at just about every UK airport and picked up fuel.
I have owned many aircraft and indeed owned and operated a fuel bowser at CWL in the 1980’s.
Be interested to see what aviation operations experience you have or indeed if you hold any flying licences?
Perhaps you can post your aviation credentials or just wind your neck in a little?
It is easy to pass judgment on any business you have never been involved in.
Flybe has peripheral ops that depend on the Oil and Gas industry as indeed do several airports such as Humberside and Durham Tees.
Norwich hits Flybe passengers with a 25% penalty on a £40 trip to Exeter via their airport development fee. Add to that passenger duty and investors are better off not bothering with at best a marginal airline.
If Flybe withdraws from airports such as above it hits their bottom line.
regards
Mike
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 18th Nov 2018 at 08:05.
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Their unofficial name is "troubled airline Flybe" in the press...
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I think you are missing my point that airlines and small airports are subsidied by the EU.
Airlines such as Flybe are recipients of this money as are the marginal east coast airports.
Remove O and G plus EU subsidies and airlines such as Flybe and Eastern have big bottom line problems.
Our research shows that over the past 10 years government agencies have spent £80m on helping private enterprise to increase the number of flights. Airports in the UK are – or are supposed to be – commercial operations. Airport companies build them then recoup their money by leasing space and landing rights to carriers and renting out pitches for shops. Until we had completed this research, government policy looked wrong but consistent: the free market was being allowed to let rip, regardless of the environmental consequences. Now we know that the government has intervened to accelerate this growth.
Of the £80m, £17m has been spent by bodies controlled by the national assemblies. Scottish Enterprise has spent £8m on developing air routes between Scottish airports and English or European cities, and on subsidies and grants to British Airways, Ryanair, Loganair and BAA. Invest Northern Ireland has spent £3m on developing new air routes. The Welsh Assembly Government has paid £6m to construct and run a new airport terminal, subsidise the Scottish company Highland Airways, give the airlines discounts for airport charges and market flights from Cardiff to Paris and Barcelona.
Here's the full list of subsidies paid out to UK airports:
Of the £80m, £17m has been spent by bodies controlled by the national assemblies. Scottish Enterprise has spent £8m on developing air routes between Scottish airports and English or European cities, and on subsidies and grants to British Airways, Ryanair, Loganair and BAA. Invest Northern Ireland has spent £3m on developing new air routes. The Welsh Assembly Government has paid £6m to construct and run a new airport terminal, subsidise the Scottish company Highland Airways, give the airlines discounts for airport charges and market flights from Cardiff to Paris and Barcelona.
Here's the full list of subsidies paid out to UK airports:
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As for Wales yes the Welsh government has spent money to promote Wales and too invest in parts of Wales like the North West in building and supporting the Anglesey route. That's their job and let's be frank they are held back in doing it in parts by the UK government and EU rules and if Wales was independent then it would be a lot different.
I'm sure Flybe has benefited from that investment as well considering how their Cardiff airport operation has grown but that's not a negative thing that's a good thing as it's created jobs that wouldn't have otherwise been there. It is the job of local authorities to promote investment in their areas and airport's are one way of doing that.
I think you are missing my point that airlines and small airports are subsidied by the EU.
Clearly axing passenger duty and airport departure fees might be a start.
Directly, we don't - they benefit from funding for PSO routes and there may be some cash for new route support (no tax on fuel, mind). I expect the amounts you've listed above are for investments in infrastructure - similar to many other industries.
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The UK is exceptionally parcimonious and tight fisted in Awarding and supporting PSO routes by comparison to competing economies.
Imho and it only an opinion Flybe operations retain one of the failures that dogged BA Regional for decades- having competing routes and hubs at both Manchester and Birmingham ; They really should focus on one or the other to strenghten the overall offering .
Further those Scottish remedial slot services probably aren’t performing that well either especially if they are carrying large numbers of Codeshare ticket holders at pence in the pound; That’s the exact formula that lead to British Midlands demise!
Imho and it only an opinion Flybe operations retain one of the failures that dogged BA Regional for decades- having competing routes and hubs at both Manchester and Birmingham ; They really should focus on one or the other to strenghten the overall offering .
Further those Scottish remedial slot services probably aren’t performing that well either especially if they are carrying large numbers of Codeshare ticket holders at pence in the pound; That’s the exact formula that lead to British Midlands demise!
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They remain part of the IAG (BA) grand father holding and have a whole host of strings attached for a number of years yet; If Flybe were to fail in the next months and I do hope they don’t these slots would revert to IAG (BA) almost immediately .
They can have no book value to Flybe at this time.
They can have no book value to Flybe at this time.
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They would definitely NOT be given to BA - the whole point of these slots is that they are to be given to an independent operator for U.K. domestics. If anything they could go to other airlines who presumably would have apply to operate them on domestic services.
Trust Flybe will act promptly with regard to the company sale, if anything - to stop all the rumours about their demise!
Trust Flybe will act promptly with regard to the company sale, if anything - to stop all the rumours about their demise!
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The slots definitely would return to BA until such time another operator applies to operate the selected routes. The remedy slots were for those seeking to fly LHR-ABZ/EDI/NCE and Moscow only.
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Does that mean the Flybe slots cannot be sold by Flybe (or whoever owns Flybe in the future) to generate cash?
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I believe that if an operator fly the routes for a number of consecutive years (Not sure how many) then the slot are then Grandfathered to them to use as they wish. Flybe could be playing the waiting game to cash in later - if they're still around.
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They would definitely NOT be given to BA - the whole point of these slots is that they are to be given to an independent operator for U.K. domestics. If anything they could go to other airlines who presumably would have apply to operate them on domestic services.
Trust Flybe will act promptly with regard to the company sale, if anything - to stop all the rumours about their demise!
Trust Flybe will act promptly with regard to the company sale, if anything - to stop all the rumours about their demise!
The terms of use are that the nominated carrier or carriers may request BA relinquish a number of slots for use on routes to Riyadh, Nice, Moscow, Aberdeen , Edinburgh and Cairo.
Todate only two carriers have tried their luck and only on the same two Scottish routes
Under the terms of the original approval of the IAG-bmi deal, the European Commission had demanded IAG release 14 daily slot pairs at London Heathrow in order to facilitate new entry. These comprise seven slot pairs to facilitate new competition between London Heathrow and either Edinburgh and/or Aberdeen and five daily slots to be used between London Heathrow and Nice, Cairo, Riyadh, Moscow, Edinburgh and/or Aberdeen.
To secure grand father rights the operator must complete three years (six consecutive seasons) of operations and even after that may only repurpose the use of the slots on domestic or EU routes or on the Cairo, Riyadh or Moscow routes if they want.They may not use them on any long haul or lease them out without express approval of IAG and competition authorities.
BTW the responsibility for choosing which slot pairs (there are a total of 12 daily pairs available) of which five must be used on the currently dormant international routes or plus the two said domestic rest directly with IAG (BA), so they can if needs be manipulate the offerings if they so choose.
All that’s why they have no book value to FLYBE any time soon.
As an aside BA are also mandated to allow Virgin Atlantic access to the Shuttle services for connecting passengers at very advantageous rates.
Whilst not directly related to the bmi purchase there are also remedial slots available from IAG (BA) to competing carriers on the Boston Miami and even JFK routes under certain circumstances. Delta have used these for Boston and Miami routes from Heathrow though the Miami services have since been terminated and placed in the hands of DELTA UK better know as Virgin Atlantic using VS slots rather than remedial ones.
Last edited by Rutan16; 18th Nov 2018 at 17:29.
