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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 14:31
  #621 (permalink)  
 
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If and it's a big they were taken over would the rights to HEATHROW pass to the new owners or lapse ,?
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 16:58
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Originally Posted by Navpi
If and it's a big they were taken over would the rights to HEATHROW pass to the new owners or lapse ,?
If flyBe were taken over by an airline/group other than IAG then yes, they would.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 16:58
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Originally Posted by hatton
How to rescue Flybe:
1) Bring back Saad
2 Get rid of the Jets
3)Focus on Belfast, Birmingham, Exeter, Glasgow, Manchester and Southampton. Close all other bases and cut routes that are loss makers.
4) Sell or park non Q400 fleet.
5) Sell simulators and out source line and base maintenance.
Can't really agree with any of that i'm afraid and Saad will most definitely not return.

Yes the E195s need to go and the sooner the better. The rest of the fleet though is a pretty perfect fit for their operations IF of course utilised in the most efficient way.

As for maintenance, it's not always the most cost effective way to outsource everything as much as some would have you believe. If anything, BE should be looking at bringing more of their A/B checks back in-house. I believe MAEL in BHX are currently taking care of that. There's also money to be made with the Flybe Airline Services operation with other Bombardier, BAE/Avro and Embraer operators often heading to them in Exeter for work.

Originally Posted by hatton
Why not have Eastern operate from bases like Cardiff and Aberdeen with J41s as part of the franchise deal?
I agree. The Eastern Airways / Flybe franchise really hasn't been used to the best of it's potential. Eastern could really have used the power of the BE brand and online selling services with opening up new routes as well it automatically expanding the Flybe network. However, as another poster has mentioned, it seems they themselves have been struggling with crewing issues. Perhaps had they planned more prospects and had more work generated at an earlier stage of the franchise, these issues may not have been the case with crew seeing a more positive and ambitious future...

As for bases, If it wasn't for the LHR route, ABZ could have been a contender to close as a BE base. Flybe operations could continue on based Eastern aircraft and away based Flybe aircraft. The only other realistic contender as a base closure would be DUS. The only benefit of this base is the early morning arrival into LCY which it too is competing directly with BA Cityflyer (ironically operated by Eastern Airways). All other routes to and from DUS can be operated with UK-based aircraft.

There's a lot of things BE need to work on to get itself into ship shape efficient order, but it needs to do so now, much more quickly! The roll out of the new Amadeus systems has been a start, but that itself is progressing rather slowly. Increasing ancillary revenues through the booking engine and operating model should also be looked. Other than the checked-in baggage charges they must be the least pushy airline when it comes to extra fee's and service offerings. Finally and following on from that, they need to aim to be a high quality low-fare regional airline. Something they are trying to be but also seem scared to fully admit to as they continue to cling on to a lot of legacy. Aircraft utilisation, old fashioned scheduling methods coupled with old fashioned overheads such as aircraft cleaning during turnarounds etc all need looking into. Its needed to make the operation much leaner and a more efficient operation if they are to survive as a sizeable operation.

Last edited by Cazza_fly; 22nd Oct 2018 at 17:41.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 17:11
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Cabin crew do clean the aircraft on out of base turnrounds expect as far as I recall MXP. But cleaners do come on at base - so as a BHX based crew member on a BHX-GLA-BHX-HAM-BHX 4 sector day you would clean at GLA and HAM only. Payments are made per out of base clean to Cabin Crew.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 17:39
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Aberdeen Base

Eastern J41 at Aberdeen would not have the capacity for the routes Ex Aberdeen. Flybe built up the LCY route however Eastern are doing their best to finish the route operating the service via Newcastle.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 18:19
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Originally Posted by househunter
Eastern J41 at Aberdeen would not have the capacity for the routes Ex Aberdeen. Flybe built up the LCY route however Eastern are doing their best to finish the route operating the service via Newcastle.
The suggestion as mentioned was based on a mix of away based BE aircraft and based Eastern Airways aircraft which compromises of JS41 and larger Saab2000 aircraft (alongside the ATR ops of course).

Also since when has the ABZ-LCY-ABZ service been operated via NCL?
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 18:52
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Also since when has the ABZ-LCY-ABZ service been operated via NCL?
It isn't, though it has been rumoured.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 18:56
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I heard that Flybe people believe in keeping the utilisation low because they are a 'different' type of airline!

Last edited by Sharklet_321; 23rd Oct 2018 at 07:49.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 08:05
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I counted five aircraft in Birmingham on the ground last Thursday - not even being touched for a turnaround which I thought was quite telling!
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 08:17
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Utilisation does appear to be very low, some aircraft doing one return short trip a day.
BA Cityflyer make their E jets work hard, during the summer week-ends once London City winds down, their E jets are working day & night to bucket & spade destinations from the regions. Winter week-ends they're heavily deployed on ski flights also from various regions.
Why aren't the Flybe E jets working into the night from BHX/MAN/SOU on bucket and spade flights? are they really scared of upsetting EZY/RYR/J2 ? Not held Cityflyer back, their flights might not be as cheap as the other LoCos but have proved to be popular.
Something is wrong with their business model for sure.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 08:38
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From what I've observed of their operations at Cardiff each based aircraft tends to average 4 departures a day Monday to Friday and 3 on Saturday and Sunday. It looks like each aircraft has 2 crews assigned to it everyday. 1 for the morning and 1 for the evening. Whether that's typical for Flybe operations or unique to Cardiff i don't know.

I believe that Flybe keep 4 Q400s and an e jet on the ground every day as fleet backup .
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 08:41
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Originally Posted by Sharklet_321
I heard that Flybe people believe in keeping the utilisation low because they are a 'different' type of airline!
whats the famous saying that planes don’t make money sitting on the ground?

Wonder if it’s to do with crewing rather than not wanting to send the planes out?

Flybe could easily mirror the success of Jet2 holidays from the regions. Yes may not be as cheap but niche city breaks etc could work plus they have a few sun routes and could fit a few others in inbetween flights I’m sure.

theyve signed up with TUI on a few routes from CWL such as VRN and the Ski routes why not tie in with a hotel provider?
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 09:22
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BA Cityflier have abandoned the weekend regional bucket and spade routes for summer 2019 so they can't have been working too well.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 09:43
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Originally Posted by Jamesair
BA Cityflier have abandoned the weekend regional bucket and spade routes for summer 2019 so they can't have been working too well.
Yet Flybe's regional sun routes seem to do ok.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 09:52
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It all depends on the level of competition they face on the sun routes. It would be a bloodbath at GLA because there's another 4-5 operators on services like Alicante, whilst they have a near monopoly at airports like CWL, SOU and EXT on many of those sun routes.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 10:08
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Originally Posted by PDXCWL45
Yet Flybe's regional sun routes seem to do ok.
BE have toyed with regional sun routes many times over the years. SOU and EXT have seen ups and downs. I would've thought if they can get bums on seats that the E195 would be better on these routes than the E175. 120 seats vs 88 seats. (Not taking into account the lease costs of E195). Eventually at the majority of their Airports the likes of EZY/FR will come in and kill the route for BE. They would be better off looking at more niche sun routes that doesn't have as much competition.

There's apparently a number of different reasons why BA dropped the regional flying. The operation was a mess with strange timings, crewing and other operational issues that on the face of it appear to have been poorly managed by them.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 10:14
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Originally Posted by Jamesair
BA Cityflier have abandoned the weekend regional bucket and spade routes for summer 2019 so they can't have been working too well.
Strange as when I looked af BA.COM a couple of days ago there was still a weekend schedule bookable from Manchester between Friday and Sunday in August. AGP, IBZ, PMI, NCE & FLR are all showing.

Could this be the final proof that manchester is no longer classified as a Regional Airport?
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 10:16
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Using SEN as an example, what is the furthest destinations an E JET could get to that is not being serviced by an other carrier (beach / ski)?
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 10:45
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Anyone know when June 2019 onwards will go on sale

They have dates and times now but prices are STUPID !? £300 one way to Glasgow from Birmingham and Manchester ................

I need to book 1x flight and change an existing booking
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 10:56
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I don't think BA Cityflyer have abandoned the bucket and spade routes, but rather rationalised them after this's years experience.
Most of the BA E jets are doing 6 rotations a day- whereas many of the Flybe ones are doing two.
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