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Flybe-9

Old 15th Jan 2019, 14:09
  #1461 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I think Mr.Tinkler had a rush of blood because anyone knowing the result of that EGM would not have considered flybe a ‘good investment’. It explains why so many institutions sold out at the end of December. I think that retail investors may not have realised the consequences.
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Old 15th Jan 2019, 15:25
  #1462 (permalink)  
 
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It looks to me that something had to be done pretty quickly as the airline would have gone under. Needed an immediate cash injection to keep it going. If you are shareholder in a company sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
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Old 15th Jan 2019, 16:37
  #1463 (permalink)  
 
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Staff should be looked after before,are they getting new aircraft delivered that was ordered.This comment is in answer to post 1463
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Old 15th Jan 2019, 18:54
  #1464 (permalink)  
 
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Who is in charge?

Originally Posted by Sharklet_321 View Post
If Stobart are in charge then expect LCY to close down and everything to be consolidated at SEN if not at LHR.

What Virgin is getting out of this I cannot understand. I get a franchise with Virgin. I get a codeshare/interline agreement. But this kind of deep and complex web of trouble?! WHY!!
Stobart are not in charge. They have a minority 30% share in the new venture and had to give up their airline to buy that minority share .
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Old 15th Jan 2019, 19:21
  #1465 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sharklet_321 View Post
If Stobart are in charge then expect LCY to close down and everything to be consolidated at SEN if not at LHR.

What Virgin is getting out of this I cannot understand. I get a franchise with Virgin. I get a codeshare/interline agreement. But this kind of deep and complex web of trouble?! WHY!!
This might be a sticking point. Stobart would want SEN to expand, whereas VS might want to keep LCY ops in competition with BACF. Closing BE at LCY doesn't mean people will transfer to using SEN.
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Old 16th Jan 2019, 08:22
  #1466 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SealinkBF View Post
They are part of a group paying 2.2m for Flybe and who are about to get 4.5 from Vueling for LGW slots, for a start.
Except for the minor detail that Flybe has something like 100m GBP debt on its balance sheet....
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Old 16th Jan 2019, 10:39
  #1467 (permalink)  
 
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Regarding Mr Tinkler - does he not still own about 7 - 8% of the shares in Stobart?
If so, their shares have jumped up about 10% whilst this scenario has been ongoing which realises him about a 4Mil gain.
Could it actually be that he built a stake up in Flybe to ensure the deal goes through and put off any other parties suddenly stake building for a spoiler bid? His loss on the Flybe shares is dwarfed by the gain in value on Stobart being part of the successful Flybe bid.
Overall, over the last few weeks, he's still 3Mil to the good.........
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Old 16th Jan 2019, 10:46
  #1468 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GEB74 View Post
Regarding Mr Tinkler - does he not still own about 7 - 8% of the shares in Stobart?
If so, their shares have jumped up about 10% whilst this scenario has been ongoing which realises him about a 4Mil gain.
Could it actually be that he built a stake up in Flybe to ensure the deal goes through and put off any other parties suddenly stake building for a spoiler bid? His loss on the Flybe shares is dwarfed by the gain in value on Stobart being part of the successful Flybe bid.
Overall, over the last few weeks, he's still 3Mil to the good.........
Lucky man if he can afford to do that, but in the end, do we really care?
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 00:30
  #1469 (permalink)  
 
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Does anyone know how much the spat with former partner Loganair cost Flybe?
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 10:39
  #1470 (permalink)  
 
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LOGANAIR made a pre-tax loss of nearly 9 million in the last financial year as it went head to head with Flybe on routes to and from the Northern Isles.

The company said that the cost of competing with its old franchise partner Flybe was 6.8 million.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 10:39
  #1471 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2018/06/2...-flybe-battle/
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 14:46
  #1472 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks, was aware of how much it cost Loganair. Just wondering how much it cost Flybe.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 15:22
  #1473 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SealinkBF View Post
Thanks, was aware of how much it cost Loganair. Just wondering how much it cost Flybe.
Probably a case of
If ye ask me on a Monday I would say 2m
If ye ask me on a Tuesday it would be 7m
But if ye as me on a Thursday...



​​​​​
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 19:29
  #1474 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SealinkBF View Post
Thanks, was aware of how much it cost Loganair. Just wondering how much it cost Flybe.
It has ultimately cost them everything!

Not literally ofcourse, but getting involved in a stupid, spiteful spat, in a tiny part of their network, with the consequent waste of management time, the distraction from core business and reputational damage among customers, investors, banks and staff, will have contributed to the current situation, as much as any financial loss.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 19:47
  #1475 (permalink)  
Fit like min?
 
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An E170 on Aberdeen > Sumburgh - halcyon times! Madness.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 20:12
  #1476 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tonyq View Post
It has ultimately cost them everything!

Not literally ofcourse, but getting involved in a stupid, spiteful spat, in a tiny part of their network, with the consequent waste of management time, the distraction from core business and reputational damage among customers, investors, banks and staff, will have contributed to the current situation, as much as any financial loss.
Spats like this show management up way more than anything else as little more than playground children rather than the professionals they wish their peers to judge them on. The cost is something they could not afford.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 20:39
  #1477 (permalink)  
 
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Makes you wonder when it was plainly obvious to everyone what the result would be... the top management really couldn't see the damage it was doing to their business...
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 21:23
  #1478 (permalink)  
 
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I was talking to someone a couple of months ago who was closely involved at the time, but is no longer connected. He reckoned that the whole revenge agenda against Loganair had been cooked up by the Chairman and then supported or at least not challenged by COW. Flybe had apparently lost around 5 mln of income with Loganair on side and the losses from the competition were nearly double that, so they had gone from plus 5 mln to about minus 15 mln on the whole thing. It was so bad that they were having crisis meetings at least twice a week and sometimes daily to try to work out what to do next. I bet that 15mln would have come in handy over the last few weeks but it was burned over a year ago.

It does sound like there were several people whose job was to shield the Chairman and CEO from bad news and make sure that they were teflon coated so nothing going wrong stuck to them. I've heard the words "self interest" quite frequently. Easy to say with hindsight but the warning signs were out there though. Blaming last autumn's results on high fuel costs when their own financial statements said 91% of fuel had been hedged was a bit rich.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 11:27
  #1479 (permalink)  
 
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I am also reasonably well connected and completely agree with Alber Hall’s first paragraph above. I can’t comment on the second paragraph. As Loganair’s MD said at the time, it was a fight that Loganair couldn’t afford to lose so why FlyBe picked it was surely just down to ego.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 11:36
  #1480 (permalink)  
 
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Senor Management will often keep up appearances by being seen to do something to lengthen their time in office and maximise their income IMHO
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