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Flybe-9

Old 13th Jan 2019, 23:19
  #1421 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by runway30 View Post
Racedo, you might have missed that they have gone for a scheme of arrangement. If approved by the Court, there is a threshold of 75% rather 90% which if passed allows you to compulsorily to acquire the minority
If I owned 10.1% I would object to the scheme of arrangement as it is an attempt to get around normal Stock Exchange rules. Stock Exchange may also become an interested party with anybody taking a legal case. In reality only people that will benefit from this are Lawyers.
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 23:22
  #1422 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by runway30 View Post


Jobsa, as Racedo has kindly pointed out, I was thinking of the legal implications.
There is a real danger that this offer ends up in legal limbo because of Mr Tinkler's purchase. Sitting dispassionately on it I cannot blame someone using whatever legal means necessary in a bid to protect himself. In many ways it was a masterstroke of an ambush which questions the bidders ability.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 06:48
  #1423 (permalink)  
 
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Going back to Stobart’s involvement, if this deal goes through the risk associated with their investment/involvement will surely be minimised by safeguarding (potentially significant) funds owed to them from the two ATRs flying out of IOM and sales from the SEN franchise operation?
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 10:51
  #1424 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure why so many are so fascinated with the idea of BE providing feed at MAN. What percentage of BE's operation would that cover? Only a small fration of all MAN flights which are only a fraction of all BE flights. So VS clearly must have something else in mind if they are willling to put that millstone of an airline around their neck.

Originally Posted by EastMids View Post

Once the three years are up, it appears that they can be traded... Quoting European Union regulation (EC) No 139/2004 – Merger procedure
...
It only says they cannot be transferred, assigned, sold or swapped during the utilisation period, which is six IATA seasons.
Then why did Virgin not simply keep Little Red in the air for a little bit longer? Would have been a less complicated move compared to burdening Virgin with a 70+ aircraft airline about to go under.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 11:22
  #1425 (permalink)  
 
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Everyone here talking about VS -but they are only putting up 30% of the money- Stobart and the investment company are the remainder.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 11:35
  #1426 (permalink)  
 
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The Acquisition will enable Flybe to benefit from committed strategic investment partners in terms of Cyrus, Stobart Group and Virgin Atlantic (through Connect Airways) and from an enhanced presence at London Heathrow Airport and Manchester Airport with potential to grow further in London Southend Airport.

From the offer document. We are only talking about MAN because the potential owners want an ‘enhanced presence’ there. They also want to grow at SEN, they also want a network carrier with Virgin Atlantic and they are also committed to regional flying. At the moment it is a confused strategy with the three partners seemingly having different objectives and all of them, at the moment, being included.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 11:59
  #1427 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 22/04 View Post
Everyone here talking about VS -but they are only putting up 30% of the money- Stobart and the investment company are the remainder.
1) The proposed branding is Virgin
2) Creating a network carrier with Virgin Atlantic is the proposal
3) The media focus is on Virgin
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 12:12
  #1428 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
So VS clearly must have something else in mind if they are willling to put that millstone of an airline around their neck.
I am assumming that in life, you have come across something that someone did, when asked why ? The response is "Well appeared to be a really good sound idea at the time" plus a combination of Ego that they knew what they were doing.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 12:58
  #1429 (permalink)  
 
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Anyways...

MrT acquired 12.2% of Flybe for just under £1m on Friday providing him with 26.5m shares.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 13:41
  #1430 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by southside bobby View Post
Anyways...

MrT acquired 12.2% of Flybe for just under £1m on Friday providing him with 26.5m shares.
So he says it is an ‘investment decision’. Either the shareholders vote through the deal and Tinkler is sitting on a £750,000 loss, or Connect have to pay considerably more, or Tinkler will have to find an alternative plan to avoid flybe running out of cash. So who is he kidding?
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 14:13
  #1431 (permalink)  
 
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This is all too weird

What’s happening to the UK right now? Seems like everyone is losing their marbles

Virgin are in far bigger trouble than everyone realises if they ‘need’ Flybe for feed
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 15:20
  #1432 (permalink)  
 
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Given that, as far as I see it, Virgin Trains habitually is the least reliable / liked / punctual UK train operator, it sounds like a brilliant idea to re-brand the UK's largest (and for all practical purposes, outside niches only remaining) domestic airline as a Virgin company.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 15:28
  #1433 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 22/04 View Post
Everyone here talking about VS -but they are only putting up 30% of the money- Stobart and the investment company are the remainder.
They actually aren't committing any money - just their brand.

Stobart realise that RE is too small for economy of scale and too dependent on the EI contract. This drove the planned merger with cityJet. flyBe is laden with debt, has had more strategies and rebranding than hot dinners. Stobart have experience in leasing and franchise operations, but don't have a strong airline brand. They nearly have no interest in developing one either, or they would have done so at SEN. Slapping a Virgin sticker on flyBe allows them to make the argument that "this time is different". I share the skepticism that 20 flights a day into LHR (most of them in the afternoon/evenings) isn't great for feeding VS. MAN is a bit better, but the current VS network is focussed on O&D and is limited in terms of destinations for a transatlantic hub.

It's probably not ideal, but having access to better sales and marketing teams seems to have worked reasonably well for RE & EI. The RE operations at Cork, for example, feed nothing, but have grown significantly since the planes were painted green.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 15:33
  #1434 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
Given that, as far as I see it, Virgin Trains habitually is the least reliable / liked / punctual UK train operator, it sounds like a brilliant idea to re-brand the UK's largest (and for all practical purposes, outside niches only remaining) domestic airline as a Virgin company.
Where on earth do you get that idea from? As far as the WCML is concerned, the Manchester - Euston service for example is every 20 minutes and punctuality has improved significantly in recent years. Are you aware of some of the problems passengers in the North have experienced with the likes of Northern and TPE?
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 15:50
  #1435 (permalink)  
 
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Virgin have done a good job on the WCML and most customers are happy with them. ECML didin't work so well. Remember that train operators have to work within the constraints of the DfT franchising system. That is never mentioned by Mr Grayling. WCML is horribly constrained capacity wise.

Back to thread - I hope this offer works out or another is forthcoming. I don't know how long Flybe can last without the £20 million investment but it can't be long- if they go the effect on BHX, SOU, EXT and NQY would be a bit of a catastrophe.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 15:50
  #1436 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MANFOD View Post
Where on earth do you get that idea from? As far as the WCML is concerned, the Manchester - Euston service for example is every 20 minutes and punctuality has improved significantly in recent years. Are you aware of some of the problems passengers in the North have experienced with the likes of Northern and TPE?
For example:
Virgin Trains named worst rail service: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/v...vice-2sh3pdqr6
Highest number of complaints: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ail-firms.html
Virgin Trains West Coast is most complained about train company: https://www.insider.co.uk/news/virgi...aints-12814110
Virgin Trains hires extra staff to deal with rising complaints: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...ng-complaints/
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 16:04
  #1437 (permalink)  
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On the subject of Virgin Trains...

Flybe are the only operators from Birmingham and Manchester to Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Virgin Trains also seem to be the major (and sometimes sole) operator of trains on these routes.

Is this likely to be a monopoly concern around any takeover or does the fact the Virgin Group will have a minority stake in both enterprises shield them?

At the moment, there seems to be a restriction on access to tracks for competitors to Virgin Trains on many routes.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 16:12
  #1438 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
For example:
Virgin Trains named worst rail service: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/v...vice-2sh3pdqr6
Highest number of complaints: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ail-firms.html
Virgin Trains West Coast is most complained about train company: https://www.insider.co.uk/news/virgi...aints-12814110
Virgin Trains hires extra staff to deal with rising complaints: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...ng-complaints/
with regards to the complaints these also include compensation claims for delays which to be fair to VT they encourage people to send in. Not many companies encourage you to get your money back so while still high they should be commended fo that.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 16:13
  #1439 (permalink)  
 
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Two of those articles are from early 2018 and the other two from 2017. I'm not saying Virgin trains are perfect by any means but are you aware of the shambles of the May'18 timetable changes (not all the fault of train operators admittedly) or that Northern have had strikes every Saturday for months and months with further cancellations of some Sunday services.

Anyway, as 22/04 wrote, back to thread. Not being aware of all the legal implications, I am nervous about Mr T's intervention by buying that chunk of shares. There was a reported denial that it was done to scupper the deal but it begs the question why he would pay the price he did if he was only going to get 1p for them. How likely is it that it would force a higher offer?
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 16:41
  #1440 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MANFOD View Post
Two of those articles are from early 2018 and the other two from 2017. I'm not saying Virgin trains are perfect by any means but are you aware of the shambles of the May'18 timetable changes (not all the fault of train operators admittedly) or that Northern have had strikes every Saturday for months and months with further cancellations of some Sunday services.

Anyway, as 22/04 wrote, back to thread. Not being aware of all the legal implications, I am nervous about Mr T's intervention by buying that chunk of shares. There was a reported denial that it was done to scupper the deal but it begs the question why he would pay the price he did if he was only going to get 1p for them. How likely is it that it would force a higher offer?
Last time I looked Northern aren’t planning to run an airline...............
.....................back to thread.

Why would any shareholder want to sell for 1p if 4p is available in the market. Of course if all shareholders sold in the market the price would come down to the offer price and the bidding company would mop them up for cash. This is not going to happen in this case because the offer is by scheme of arrangement so Connect will not buy any shares until they have the agreement of 75% of shareholders. So assuming that Tinkler isn’t just throwing his money away you have to assume that there is another bid on the way but whether Tinkler has tied his hands by publicly declaring that he is only making an investment and won’t interfere with the bid, I don’t know. As a well known EU negotiator said, “The clock is ticking” and I do hope that these people don’t hate each other so much that they are prepared to destroy this airline just to score points.
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