Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Flybe-9

Old 26th Oct 2018, 09:24
  #681 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by shamrock7seal View Post
There seem to be 8 Flybe aircraft based at SOU overnight. But only 5 needed for the first morning wave. That’s not good utilisation if you ask me. The ERJ-195 seemed to have a full 13 or 14 hours on the ramp at SOU overnight.
Sadly the lay over time at SOU is a requirement due to stringent curfew restrictions. SOU shuts at 2230L on a weekday, usually extendable but only by an hour or less...

Last edited by Jersey32D; 26th Oct 2018 at 12:11.
Jersey32D is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2018, 10:21
  #682 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: East London
Age: 37
Posts: 992
Originally Posted by limited_sight View Post
Stobart incurred a loss of £18m in relation to the flybe franchise according their first half report.

Jet routes at Southend to be discontinued by the end of March 2019. ATR routes go by March 2020.
A half-year loss of £18m would be quite a feat from the seven aircraft working BE services!

It was Stobart Group that posted an £18m loss, Stobart Air £2.7m. A fair chunk of that I would imagine would be arising from EU261 payouts due to the woeful performance of the E195s this summer.
AirportPlanner1 is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2018, 10:42
  #683 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 4,427
This is where the £18m came from:
https://polaris.brighterir.com/publi.../story/xlm4dpr

Stobart Air has played a fundamental part in the growth strategy for London Southend Airport. As previously announced, Stobart Group incurred net costs of £18.0 million in route development and marketing for the airport. This expenditure represents the development of routes operated under the UK Flybe franchise operation (UKFFO). Demonstrating route viability and building customer awareness was central to securing a milestone agreement with Ryanair that will allow us to accelerate the growth of the airport.
SWBKCB is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2018, 11:58
  #684 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
Posts: 1,304
Anyone care to suggest the actual defrayment of that 18 million quid?.
southside bobby is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2018, 12:00
  #685 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: DK
Posts: 26
What ever is the reason for the theses costs, the SEN routes are Stobart's business with the commercial risk on their side. There were voices expressing concern when they decided offering these routes. What they did was wet leasing aircraft from Flybe to operate them under own risk under the Flybe label by also paying franchise fees (if they did not negotiate this away).

And then there were various changes in Stobart's strategy. The wanted to start operating the E95s much earlier but possibly failed to get the crews, so the flybe leases were extended. Now, that they have eventually acquired three E95s, they stop these routes. Not sure what are their plans for them now but they will have exactly the same problem that Flybe has with these airframes: How to make money with them?
limited_sight is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2018, 15:24
  #686 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Exmouth
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by hatton View Post
2Excel Aviation at Lasham, Bruce Dickinson at Cardiff or KLM UK at Norwich would, I am sure be very competitive for base maintenance.

Would it be out of the realms of possibility for Stobbarts to buy Flybe?
Far better to give MAEL the base work , They maintain our aircraft for less then we can do it

Forget mickey mouse providers such as Cardiff Aviation...
Doc Q is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2018, 21:20
  #687 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Plymouth
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by Doc Q View Post


Far better to give MAEL the base work , They maintain our aircraft for less then we can do it

Forget mickey mouse providers such as Cardiff Aviation...
And if you had read my post you would have seen that wouldn't work as FAS provides the only profit for the Flybe Group, note it is the airline itself that is loss making, not the MRO!
Besides that they would still have to provide maintenance for the A400M contract at Brize Norton, to put it into context if Flybe was to go bankrupt tomorrow the airline would be gone, but FAS(Flybe Aviation Services) would carry on as normal, just in the same way Monarch did.
airsouthwest is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2018, 21:29
  #688 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Exmouth
Posts: 55
Get real......FAS good as they are would not survive without the airline as our remit is to narrow , We can’t maintain anything like the range of aircraft MAEL can , We are limited to puddle jumpers i’m afraid .

Best bet cut our costs and farm everything out to MAEL , Then just keep the third party work in Exeter

All academic now anyway as COW has opened the seacocks good style and it’s just a matter of time sadly....Be nice to see FAS surviving but just cannot see it i’m afraid





Doc Q is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2018, 22:07
  #689 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: exeter
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Doc Q View Post
Get real......FAS good as they are would not survive without the airline as our remit is to narrow , We canít maintain anything like the range of aircraft MAEL can , We are limited to puddle jumpers iím afraid .

Best bet cut our costs and farm everything out to MAEL , Then just keep the third party work in Exeter

All academic now anyway as COW has opened the seacocks good style and itís just a matter of time sadly....Be nice to see FAS surviving but just cannot see it iím afraid





Iíve been advocating long and hard we should have expanded our capability to include the likes of the 737 and 320 series aircraft
bodminsteve is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2018, 15:19
  #690 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Plymouth
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by Doc Q View Post
Get real......FAS good as they are would not survive without the airline as our remit is to narrow , We canít maintain anything like the range of aircraft MAEL can , We are limited to puddle jumpers iím afraid .

Best bet cut our costs and farm everything out to MAEL , Then just keep the third party work in Exeter

All academic now anyway as COW has opened the seacocks good style and itís just a matter of time sadly....Be nice to see FAS surviving but just cannot see it iím afraid






MAEL don't have a good name within Flybe, without getting a lawsuit being thrown at me that's all I can say. As for throwing out all Flybe aircraft and keeping third party work, that's not going to happen because the union will never allow it, you'd basically end up with all the staff leaving or going on strike! To be honest if you love MAEL so much go work for them, you don't seem to have much of a clue on what your talking about.

As for having A320's/737's in the FAS Hangar it wouldn't work as the hangars aren't big enough, nor is there the man power, plus the cost of buying addition staging, jacks, training and other specialist tools wouldn't be seen as worth it when the airline has no interest in it themselves, its bad enough trying to get more staging for the Embraer as is!
airsouthwest is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2018, 18:13
  #691 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: exeter
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
MAEL don't have a good name within Flybe, without getting a lawsuit being thrown at me that's all I can say. As for throwing out all Flybe aircraft and keeping third party work, that's not going to happen because the union will never allow it, you'd basically end up with all the staff leaving or going on strike! To be honest if you love MAEL so much go work for them, you don't seem to have much of a clue on what your talking about.

As for having A320's/737's in the FAS Hangar it wouldn't work as the hangars aren't big enough, nor is there the man power, plus the cost of buying addition staging, jacks, training and other specialist tools wouldn't be seen as worth it when the airline has no interest in it themselves, its bad enough trying to get more staging for the Embraer as is!

Given the state we are in the bloody unions should not be dictating what we should and should not be doing , There are to many people stuck in the exeter bubble , If that bubble bursts they will be catapulted into the real world and they won’t like it....And they won’t leave because they have no where to go which is why we can get away with paying them a lot less than the going rate for engineers


We may not like MAEL but they are saving us a lot of money




We could dump them but we won’t for that very good reason , We cannot afford not to have them on board and that’s the facts of the matter

Last edited by bodminsteve; 28th Oct 2018 at 18:30.
bodminsteve is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2018, 22:02
  #692 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Plymouth
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by bodminsteve View Post



Given the state we are in the bloody unions should not be dictating what we should and should not be doing , There are to many people stuck in the exeter bubble , If that bubble bursts they will be catapulted into the real world and they wonít like it....And they wonít leave because they have no where to go which is why we can get away with paying them a lot less than the going rate for engineers


We may not like MAEL but they are saving us a lot of money




We could dump them but we wonít for that very good reason , We cannot afford not to have them on board and thatís the facts of the matter
True about MAEL saving money, but then its balancing out with saving money vs reputation. Saad already tried to get rid of FAS back in 2013/2014 and it didn't work, partly because the maintenance side makes over £2 million a year in profit, I know the battery bay and tire bay's got shut down and sold off but the rest has stayed, Flybe where in a lot worse a state back then and Saad would of happily got rid of FAS if he had a genuine reason too, Christine comes from a MRO background so is far more loyal to the maintenance side of things. Don't forget Flybe also has Apple Aviation (Newquay) and Storm(Cardiff & London) working for them, the only reason being is because its cheaper than bringing in Flybe maintenance teams.

As for the Exeter bubble, I don't think that's true, if people wanted more money they'd happily go elsewhere, people stay in Exeter because they want to, Flybe won't get rid of its maintenance side I just can't see it not after the heavy investment in AMOS anyway. Personally the issue is more down to the airline side which need more passengers and less AOG. Once the E195's have gone, maybe things will get better, but personally from experience it seems more an internal problem, how is it before Saad left Flybe made a small profit, yet the second Christine took over Flybe has made a loss ever since?
airsouthwest is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 14:09
  #693 (permalink)  
V12
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 127
"..yet the second Christine took over Flybe has made a loss ever since?"

Flybe was pretty much fatally wounded by JF and the Embraer deal, and subsequent CEO's have been fighting to keep it alive. SH bought it some extra time by selling the LGW slots, and trading the fleet, but the time it took to get the E-jets off the books still left it a terminal case. COW had a very short window before the oxygen ran out, and starting a war with a monopoly Scottish airline (without a big enough war chest to ensure she won) may not have been the wisest use of that window. In her time in office the market cap of FlyBe has fallen by 75% - call that £70m of investors funds trashed. Also in the Chairman's time in office he has presided over the destruction of £195m of value! I'd like to think SL chose COW because she expounded a clear vision of how to cure FlyBe and give it hope.

Looking at it today, 2 years on, does anyone believe either of these folk have the proven ability to dig Flybe out of this mess, with that track record?

Is there any sign of a plan to save this very handy little airline, which deserves to survive for its loyal passengers and employees? I do hope so, but it seems to lurch from one bit of bad news to another, without anything good in between, and winter is fast approaching.
V12 is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 14:29
  #694 (permalink)  
MDS
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Spain
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by V12 View Post
Flybe was pretty much fatally wounded by JF and the Embraer deal
Slightly offtopic but just out of curiosity, do you know the rough figures regarding the Embraer deal? I'd heard there were extreme cancellation clauses in the contract which prevented them being terminated early, but I was curious to the specifics if you happened to know.

Much appreciated as I've been curious to the inner details of the deal which seems to be an open wound.
MDS is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 19:27
  #695 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 1000ft above you, giving you the bird!
Posts: 489
750,000 shares sold today and share price just over 12p..... time for heads to roll!!

What an absolute shame that the employees are sat watching this “car crash” and would probably do anything to save their jobs, yet the board... who appear on the face of it to be fairly incompetent are having a “Costa Concordia” moment and are failing miserably to take command of anything and admit no responsibility for their poor judgement, lack of communication and lack of leadership to steer the ship to a port of safe refuge and sit out the storm.....

* Top 20 routes for Q400 should be 100% focus
* Ditch all non domestic ops and routes
Until 100% of Brexit clarity known why would you allow this to continue on a risk register as red flag item that could fold you overnight?
* Park ALL Jets or offer them out to ACMI market
* RETAIN all crews and offer them out on agency contracts - lose them and they will never return
(most skygods I work with want a stable roster, good pay and a decent home life)
*Invest what little money they have in MRO capability and alternative low cost bases to operate from
*Innovate in the business market which is their core product
*Innovate in their method of business traveller retention
*Innovate in their ACMI capability
*Agressively regain control of the Islands
*Think outside the box with value add partners that are non aviation

I pray and hope for all of the employees sake that it works out ok - god speed.....

Full opposite rudder till the rotation stops, centralise, stick forward to unstall, recover from the ensuing dive - convert speed to height!!

Very frustrating living 40 minutes away... especially when it could be recovered from the fully developed spin it is in!

Switching to guns.... ready to fend off the chowing I’m going to get!
Jetscream 32 is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 20:14
  #696 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Belfast
Posts: 287
Not great news if investors are selling up. Hopefully it's not all doom and gloom
Alteagod is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2018, 13:46
  #697 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 1000ft above you, giving you the bird!
Posts: 489
Looking like 10p by COP play today - all of the auto trades have triggered and the stock is dumping..... !! Pan,Pan,Pan!
Jetscream 32 is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2018, 14:31
  #698 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Eas Anglia
Age: 60
Posts: 464
How low can it go and does it actually make any difference?

when I say difference I mean .20 15. 10.

All are pretty shocking.
Navpi is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2018, 15:43
  #699 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 3,655
Are there any banking covenants which reference the share price / market cap ?
Or (in non jargon) are there any loan agreements whereby the bank which has lent money to Flybe has the right to make life more difficult for Flybe (eg demand immediate loan repayment or charge a higher interest rate on the loan) if the share price drops below a certain level ?

Not saying there are or aren't - just that I really hope there is nothing like this on Flybe's books

With the share price where it is, cash reserves will be critical to getting through the winter. Raising of fresh equity or debt will be a challenge
davidjohnson6 is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2018, 17:09
  #700 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 1000ft above you, giving you the bird!
Posts: 489
10p now as predicted - pretty sure that's the threshold major shareholders take notice of and start to push for immediate changes in management...
Jetscream 32 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.