Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Flybe-9

Old 21st Jul 2020, 21:31
  #4261 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: britain
Posts: 536
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Actually the 195s had the same capacity as the 146-300 they mainly replaced 118 vs 114. The 146s had been around since 1994
bean is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2020, 22:54
  #4262 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Solihull
Age: 58
Posts: 3,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
175's

Originally Posted by Rivet Joint View Post
Partly because they fell into the usual trap of thinking a move to a larger aircraft was a logical step but mainly because of this ridiculous mantra that jet aircraft are superior and will result in more people flying with them.

Ultimately the majority of people want to fly for as cheap as possible regardless of any little niggles like noise from the plane. FR would have gone out of business long ago if it wasn’t for the fact that the price is paramount for travellers. I have said it a number of times on here that the q400 was BEs USP, and their whole business was built around it. Clearly BE had their pants taken down with the 195 deal, which was made even worse by the fact a market never materialised for them. They were just flown around in a desperate attempt to slightly reduce the lease costs. The 175 was never needed, and was purely bought to pander to the ridiculous notion that jets are superior. Which is why they were mainly flown out of BHX and MAN on routes where AF and LH competed. It was another ball and chain around BEs ankle that they didn’t need. If they stuck to just having the Q400 BE would probably still be around today, even with the numerous morons that have been in charge over the years. Perhaps they could have even picked up a few A220s by now to serve A few holiday routes like Wideroe and Binter have done with the E-2. Air Baltic are proving the a220 is a good aircraft for low cost travel but BE are predominately a regional carrier so only a couple like wideroe/binter have exploded themselves to would work. I remember quite clearly at the time the 175s were introduced that they had numerous options in place with the idea that they would replace all the q400s. Utter madness.
Just to clarify a couple of points.

The 175 was never flown in competition with Air France on the BHX-CDG as it was a joint venture and rumour had it Air France insisted on Jets and in general the 195 operated first out and last back but the 175 more recently of course as the 195's reduced. The Q400 was only ever scheduled at the weekend.

The 175/195 was very much needed on the Milan and Florence as both had regular high load factors although yields were probably only sufficient in summer. Agreed re Amsterdam that the Q400 was sufficient for that route and the same could be said of Dusseldorf up against Eurowings.and the domestic routes.

Stuttgart was believed to be high yielding was not really a Q400 route and the 175 was perfect in terms of speed, reliability and passenger comfort. The same could be said of Berlin although not quite so high-yielding. Also of course they got into the IT market with Kefallinia and Preveza which needed jets and the 175 did both in recent years but whether this operation ever made a profit I do have my doubts.

As you say some routes they were used on was at times mind-boggling - MAN-NQY, MAN-SOU, MAN-LUX(only occasionally), BHX-EDI, BHX-GLA, BHX-NOC (Occasionally), MAN & BHX to DUS and AMS could have been served 100% of the time by the Q400 but having travelled on several 175's and Q400's the passenger experience was light years apart but of course that does not bring home the bacon especially if the jet were tied up in a bad finance deal.

Pete
OltonPete is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2020, 22:58
  #4263 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,342
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You are, of course, correct about the relative capacities of the 146-300 and the E195. The difference is really that you could afford to park the former during periods of slack demand given the low capital but relatively high operating costs of the 146. You had to fly the nuts off the 195s to make a high capital cost but low operating cost aircraft work, and if the market demand isn't there to sustain the flying, the economics turn against you pretty quickly.

I suspect if we were to list out all the reasons why Flybe failed, these would be on the list but by no means alone. I am not volunteering to start the list though, nor do I think it is helpful to anyone at this point in time. The Embraer deals were undoubtedly part of the problem and not the solution, but they count amongst many reasons for Flybe's failure.
Flightrider is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2020, 12:12
  #4264 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Flightrider View Post
You are, of course, correct about the relative capacities of the 146-300 and the E195. The difference is really that you could afford to park the former during periods of slack demand given the low capital but relatively high operating costs of the 146. You had to fly the nuts off the 195s to make a high capital cost but low operating cost aircraft work, and if the market demand isn't there to sustain the flying, the economics turn against you pretty quickly.

I suspect if we were to list out all the reasons why Flybe failed, these would be on the list but by no means alone. I am not volunteering to start the list though, nor do I think it is helpful to anyone at this point in time. The Embraer deals were undoubtedly part of the problem and not the solution, but they count amongst many reasons for Flybe's failure.
I wonder how cheap the capital cost if the 146 fleet would have been, at the time? They were a 'current' aircraft and in reasonable demand. As I remember BE were the launch customer for the updated RJX too, which was cancelled after 9/11. I don't think the E-195 is considered an aircraft with a low operating cost? Apparently, like-for-like the per-seat operational costs of a 195 are higher than an A319 and nearly the same as an A320. In an age where even Lufthansa fit 180 seats on their A320s, the cost delta cannot be justified. Especially in price-sensitive markets, which Wizz and FR are cost-leaders in. The irony is that if flyBe had been a retail organisation they could have used tools like CVA or pre-pack administration to stabilise around the Q400s and UK domestic travel. Because the CAA required companies going through such restructurings to surrender their operational licences they could not realign their cost-base to their revenue reality.

The loss of flyBe is a real shame for the UK, although a lot of routes will be replaced, with time. The cost for employees is high.
brian_dromey is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2020, 03:51
  #4265 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: britain
Posts: 536
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Bae were anxious to offload quite a few 146s in the nineties
They used to court Jack Walker asidously to take more. He told me
bean is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2020, 09:16
  #4266 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: England
Age: 63
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
G-FLBD now owned by HEH Aviation flown BHX to NRN 28/07/2020.
Airbus123 is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2020, 14:53
  #4267 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: England
Age: 63
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ERJ175 G-FBJF flown EXT to LIS 22/08/2020. owned by Flybe Leasing Cayman.
Airbus123 is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2020, 16:55
  #4268 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Various at the moment
Posts: 1,136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
G-FBJF flew EGTE-LPAR actually.
dc9-32 is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2020, 08:48
  #4269 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: England
Age: 63
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
According to planespotters.net, G-JECK (the DHC8 that had a bump at ABZ on 16/06/2020) flew to MST on 16/07/2020.

Owned by Nordic Aviation Capital.
Airbus123 is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2020, 15:35
  #4270 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: England
Age: 63
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the update on G-FBJF.
Airbus123 is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2020, 11:52
  #4271 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Interesting read

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...t-1p-deal.html

Not sure if anything will happen and of course no comfort to the great staff and crews. Some great stories on LinkedIn on crews etc and how they are innovating through the turmoil.

In relation to the article, my feeling is that the publicity etc. may prevent anyone employing those two again.









jamestkirk is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2020, 12:01
  #4272 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jamestkirk View Post
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...t-1p-deal.html

Not sure if anything will happen and of course no comfort to the great staff and crews. Some great stories on LinkedIn on crews etc and how they are innovating through the turmoil.

In relation to the article, my feeling is that the publicity etc. may prevent anyone employing those two again.
A sorry tale of boardroom mis-management for many years which has ultimately impacted on thousands of decent employees!
SKOJB is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2020, 12:06
  #4273 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Absolutely right SKOJB. If mis management is proven to be the case it would be somewhat satisfying to see those two in court.
jamestkirk is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2020, 20:15
  #4274 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jamestkirk View Post
Absolutely right SKOJB. If mis management is proven to be the case it would be somewhat satisfying to see those two in court. JAIL
Typo corrected
Tonyq is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2020, 22:05
  #4275 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Midlands
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Current fleet status as of 05th Oct 20.

Last edited by jethro15; 5th Oct 2020 at 11:06.
jethro15 is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2020, 23:54
  #4276 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: England
Age: 63
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Jethos does not show ERJ190 G-FBEG, G-FBEH or G-FBEI. All are still at NWI as are G-FBEJ and G-FBEK, (the latter in Great Dane c/s but still carrying the old reg.
Airbus123 is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2020, 07:24
  #4277 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Tonyq

Ha. It took me a while as I was looking for my mistake. Yes, I stand corrected.

I can assume from Jethros list thatís all the fleet gone.

I wonít post again on this thread again as it seems that with that fleet gone back that a new venture from the old Is unlikely.

Best of luck to all the ex Flybe people. Sincerely hope that your all skyward soon.


jamestkirk is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2020, 08:29
  #4278 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Airbus123 View Post
Jethos does not show ERJ190 G-FBEG, G-FBEH or G-FBEI. All are still at NWI as are G-FBEJ and G-FBEK, (the latter in Great Dane c/s but still carrying the old reg.
That's because EF/EG/EH/EI were all handed back to the leasing company and left the fleet prior to the airline falling into administration.
Jersey32D is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2020, 16:42
  #4279 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: England
Age: 63
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
G-JECZ flew from BHX to NRN today according to =AZUTTIZQtDs3KVpRwgANKIPEMb4YqmH8lpydw7q1ov6GK6WLqLHlVy4VHs-pwm7WP4nZdFlt6Bz1zahPfChBYJxlAONzgqiMpt4eZ5QPRDIeovBn-qRL8jtKGCj4jclMEGZURaagBCE-pQVlnHCQh248QeSFmpHKGZVZ9_o7UU7kdlSIFtspFv6siC_8FjkmnMU&__tn __=-UC%2CP-R]Aviation Enthusiasts UK page on FB.
Airbus123 is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2020, 08:37
  #4280 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Age: 58
Posts: 2,595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
For the record, the final Q400 (G-ECOM) at SOU left for NRN yesterday.
Wycombe is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.